Idle Talk with Shritzu

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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:05 am

To the guns? No

To drugs? Maybe. Maybe Colorado elected more liberal or pro drug legislators.

Not been following news lately so no idea about North Korea.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Shritzu » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:43 pm

What's this i hear about memos being leaked explaining the Executive right to kill any u.s. citizen abroad with connection to terrorism with no trial or evidence?
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:25 am

Shritzu wrote:What's this i hear about memos being leaked explaining the Executive right to kill any u.s. citizen abroad with connection to terrorism with no trial or evidence?



It is what you hear. It is a legal analysis of the review process and rationale for targeted drone strikes. The evidence part is false. It requires a stringent review process, and is only an available option under certain circumstances.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Shritzu » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:44 am

I see.
Before i turn around minimum wage is supposed to go to 9.00 dollars and kids get 2 days off on presidents day...What is going on?
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:25 am

The rise of the minimum wage/living wage is partly a social policy, people are struggling so get companies to give them a boost, and partly economic as it will hopefully put more money in the pockets of the poor and so get more consumer spending.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Objectivist » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:04 am

Dong Zhou wrote:The rise of the minimum wage/living wage is partly a social policy, people are struggling so get companies to give them a boost, and partly economic as it will hopefully put more money in the pockets of the poor and so get more consumer spending.


I'm not sure why the minimum wage is a topic. Basically every couple of years politicians bring it up and make it a big issue. They do this...because people respond to it, even though it's really a non-issue.

Most of the people who make minimum wage are teenagers working their first jobs. They have no skills, no experience, no understanding of how businesses operate and often make costly mistakes while on the job. Every time we have raised the minimum wage our unemployment rate has gone up shortly after. Employers will hire more unskilled teenagers at $8 per her than they would if they had to pay $9.30 or whatever the increase is suggesting. It costs people jobs and rewards unskilled people for nothing they earned on their own.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:41 am

Objectivist wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:The rise of the minimum wage/living wage is partly a social policy, people are struggling so get companies to give them a boost, and partly economic as it will hopefully put more money in the pockets of the poor and so get more consumer spending.


I'm not sure why the minimum wage is a topic. Basically every couple of years politicians bring it up and make it a big issue. They do this...because people respond to it, even though it's really a non-issue.

Most of the people who make minimum wage are teenagers working their first jobs. They have no skills, no experience, no understanding of how businesses operate and often make costly mistakes while on the job. Every time we have raised the minimum wage our unemployment rate has gone up shortly after. Employers will hire more unskilled teenagers at $8 per her than they would if they had to pay $9.30 or whatever the increase is suggesting. It costs people jobs and rewards unskilled people for nothing they earned on their own.



Thats true to an extent. 50% or so of minimum wage earners would be between 16-25 I'd say, but thats leaves 50% or so older than that age range. I'd also question whether the minimum wage affects salaries across the board for establishing a floor.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby agga » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:31 am

Dong Zhou wrote:The rise of the minimum wage/living wage is partly a social policy, people are struggling so get companies to give them a boost, and partly economic as it will hopefully put more money in the pockets of the poor and so get more consumer spending.


what i don't understand is why the way to help struggling people is to let the government set prices for labor. if a person's labor isn't worth 9.00/hr, why should a business have to pay that?

if we really want to use the government to help struggling people, just do it directly with a tax credit or something. setting prices screws up markets - setting minimum prices causes inflation, and vice versa. i'm not against wealth redistribution, but it should be plain and out in the open, not hidden in some coercive distortion of what should be an ordinary transaction between workers and employers. but then there's the whole class struggle thing, so...

as for boosting consumer spending, people who make minimum wage don't really register as 'consumers' in the larger economy; all of their income is going into rent and food, and another dollar an hour will maybe get them an extra consumer product or two a month - they aren't buying cars and washing machines and computers. i don't think this can really justify the practice of setting or raising a minimum wage.

*edit*
Shikanosuke wrote:I'd also question whether the minimum wage affects salaries across the board for establishing a floor.


on this point, setting a floor will either 1) shift salaries upwards, especially if they're closer to the minimum, since room has to be made for incentives to promotion and advancement, or 2) illegalize low-cost jobs, i.e. jobs that aren't *worth* the minimum, which will create either a black market for certain types of labor or just shunt the demand to other countries; so, salaries above the minimum won't be affected, but the change in the economic structure - absence of certain types of activity that would be there without the minimum, or presence of that activity in a black market - could affect 'legal' salary levels in unpredictable ways...
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Shritzu » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:33 am

Objectivist wrote:Most of the people who make minimum wage are teenagers working their first jobs. They have no skills, no experience, no understanding of how businesses operate and often make costly mistakes while on the job. Every time we have raised the minimum wage our unemployment rate has gone up shortly after. Employers will hire more unskilled teenagers at $8 per her than they would if they had to pay $9.30 or whatever the increase is suggesting. It costs people jobs and rewards unskilled people for nothing they earned on their own....

Like an echo...However, again the choice lies with people whether or not to "adapt" to this new value of labor?
[/quote]
agga wrote:on this point, setting a floor will either 1) shift salaries upwards, especially if they're closer to the minimum, since room has to be made for incentives to promotion and advancement, or 2) illegalize low-cost jobs, i.e. jobs that aren't *worth* the minimum, which will create either a black market for certain types of labor or just shunt the demand to other countries; so, salaries above the minimum won't be affected, but the change in the economic structure - absence of certain types of activity that would be there without the minimum, or presence of that activity in a black market - could affect 'legal' salary levels in unpredictable ways...

My thoughts exactly.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:49 am

I think the left-wing thinking is that corporation's are making tons of money, aren't investing anyway and paying people less then the government believes they can live on. So government has to use it's own money to subsidise the living of workers while companies make profits and some think it might be helpful if government's didn't have to subside companies in that way.

I expect to see the living way pushed in England. Some Tories are pushing it, even if they might be against legislating, and the minimum wage is generally considered a good thing, even by the right, so we shall see what happens.
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