Idle Talk with Shritzu

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Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Shritzu » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:21 am

I suppose this is more or less an attempt to address a great deal current events and emerse in the view others might have without an isolated focus or the conslolidated chances of multiple debates.This is more or less talk over tea,by which i can recognize personal stances on world affairs and investigate those opinions.
I will start with this little number-
I awoke one day to find colorado legalizing cannibis and and gun control publicity,And so knowing the "cause" of these "effects" I wonder-What has changed to bring about said displays? We can say another used firearms to claim the lives of others-Cause,therefore more strict control is necessary-effect.But this has happened before,why the sudden need for change? Also why is Cannibis NOW availible for recreational use(state law)?What has changed to kindle the ember of change i wonder? Can someone tell me?
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:19 am

1) In the west, there seems to be a growing movement of the political class going "ok, the war on drugs isn't working, we should try something different." thus a more soft approach. There has been quite a few clahses in the UK between government and advisers, including the Home Select Committee with the latter tended to have a softer approach then the Cabinet.

2) My guess on why gun control is a big issue now? The attacks keep happening. It is no longer a one off and each time an attack happens, it seems like the gun-control lobby/faction gets more members and will keep doing so as long as the attacks keep happening. For what seems to be the first time, the NRA is not able to rely on all it's usual supporters.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:33 pm

Shritzu wrote:I suppose this is more or less an attempt to address a great deal current events and emerse in the view others might have without an isolated focus or the conslolidated chances of multiple debates.This is more or less talk over tea,by which i can recognize personal stances on world affairs and investigate those opinions.
I will start with this little number-
I awoke one day to find colorado legalizing cannibis and and gun control publicity,And so knowing the "cause" of these "effects" I wonder-What has changed to bring about said displays? We can say another used firearms to claim the lives of others-Cause,therefore more strict control is necessary-effect.But this has happened before,why the sudden need for change? Also why is Cannibis NOW availible for recreational use(state law)?What has changed to kindle the ember of change i wonder? Can someone tell me?


I really don't understand the call of the question. To the former, gun control is always a hot topic and the death of children has pulled it back into the forefront. To the later, legalization politics and other smaller political news happen all the time without us knowing. I'd guess Colorado looked at California's experiment, as well as Dong Zhou said the growing discontent with the current laws, and decided to put it up for vote.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:40 pm

The stricter gun control lobbyists are just opportunists who are jumping on current events to justify unconstitutional and anti-liberty changes to the law. They are vultures who have been waiting for something like a shooting to happen for a long time in order to further their political ends. Every time something like this happens they immediately call for limits on free speech, censorship of media, gun control and anything else on their agenda. What else is new? Politics is an exercise in self-interest.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:56 pm

Shikanosuke wrote: I'd guess Colorado looked at California's experiment, as well as Dong Zhou said the growing discontent with the current laws, and decided to put it up for vote.


and the UK home affairs select committee is looking at Portugal with a side dose of California. Now a few places have tried legalising, the rest of the west are looking at it with interest

I can't tell if Jordan is being serious or not.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:49 pm

I am. I've always been opposed to gun control.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:40 pm

Ok, I may not understand the American love of guns but your entitled to it but aren't you being harsh towards those you disagree with?

Maybe gun control lobbyists include people who see these murders, see the Mexican drug wars, who see the deaths and believe the cure (or part of it) is to look at other countries gun control laws and tighten your own? Maybe they don't wait for the deaths but know that the only time they have a snowballs chance in hell of real reform is if the NRA are unable to use their usual strong influence to block said reforms? Which will only happen when people get sick of the deaths and that the NRA senses the mood is not with them? If you want reform for the betterment of society/your country as one sees it, you have to know how to get it passed.

First time I have ever heard of the anti-gun lobby being anti-free speech or censorship. Or you referring to other factions like security services pushing against civil liberties every time there is a terrorist attack?
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:15 pm

these murders


caused by murderers

and in this case an autist

see the Mexican drug wars


caused by drug laws

believe the cure (or part of it)


none of it. guns aren't the problem in any case.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby James » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:19 pm

Jordan wrote:The stricter gun control lobbyists are just opportunists who are jumping on current events to justify unconstitutional and anti-liberty changes to the law. They are vultures who have been waiting for something like a shooting to happen for a long time in order to further their political ends. Every time something like this happens they immediately call for limits on free speech, censorship of media, gun control and anything else on their agenda. What else is new? Politics is an exercise in self-interest.

They're no more opportunistic than the gun rights advocates. Disagreeing with your point of view does not make them opportunistic—they're just trying to achieve their goals. And there's nothing unconstitutional about banning military-style assault rifles, or about stricter gun control laws. Every other constitutional right, such as free speech, has limitations, and it is unrealistic to expect that gun rights should be exempt from that sanity check. It is simply a matter of determining whether or not those sanity checks are appropriate or inappropriate for the country.
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Re: Idle Talk with Shritzu

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:57 pm

Jordan wrote:
these murders


caused by murderers

and in this case an autist


Yea I'm actually fairly critical of the gun-control groups at this time, but as James said both would be opportunistic. Furthermore your retort doesn't actually reply to Dong Zhou's response.

I'm also not sure why this conversation isn't in the Gun Control thread.
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