Page 1 of 2

Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:39 pm
by Objectivist
Do you believe that foreign interests should be allowed to donate to candidates or run political ads in America? For example, should British citizens be allowed to try and influence American politics through media advertisements?

I'm curious what people think of this concept.

Re: Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:42 am
by Dong Zhou
Shouldn't you guys be voting for what your mother country wants anyway? Hint, the guy who didn't insult us over the Olympics :wink:

In an out and out election? Don't think so, didn't like it when heads of Europe suddenly began trying to influence their friends election camapigns. Merkel clearly allying herself with Sarkozy and the elections in Greece coming to mind.

Taking out political ads on a specific issue outside election time? Seems a reasonable way to be heard.

Re: Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:59 pm
by WeiWenDi
Dong Zhou wrote:Shouldn't you guys be voting for what your mother country wants anyway? Hint, the guy who didn't insult us over the Olympics :wink:


That's a rather low-hanging fruit. Give us the option to vote for un-declaring our independence and becoming a full member of the Commonwealth of Nations with a House of Lords, a House of Commons and a Governor-General representing the Queen; I'd vote for it in a heartbeat.

Dong Zhou wrote:In an out and out election? Don't think so, didn't like it when heads of Europe suddenly began trying to influence their friends election camapigns. Merkel clearly allying herself with Sarkozy and the elections in Greece coming to mind.

Taking out political ads on a specific issue outside election time? Seems a reasonable way to be heard.


Yeah... I think I agree with you there. There is a line, I think, but it does seem debatable where it actually lies.

The Chinese government taking out ad space in the New York Times to argue for why the Diaoyu Islands are theirs? Fair dos. However, if they directly lobbied senators and maintained a network of media outlets dedicated to stamping out anything they saw as criticism of them (like the Israel lobby does), I'd say that would be stepping over the line.

Re: Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:45 am
by Crazedmongoose
Well when I was in the US (oh yeah, I was in the US for like a month, hence me not being on here) I managed to convince an amtrak dining cart worth of people to vote Democrats. And I am definitely not American (though I probably would migrate if it I got a decent job).

Does that count? :wink:



WWD: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-j ... n-kills-it

Re: Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:24 pm
by agga
Objectivist wrote:Do you believe that foreign interests should be allowed to donate to candidates or run political ads in America? For example, should British citizens be allowed to try and influence American politics through media advertisements?

I'm curious what people think of this concept.


i think anybody should be able donate or advertise whatever they like, so long as we can all see who they are. ads should specify who paid for them, *by name* (i.e. not by some proxy organizational alias), starting with the biggest investors, and working down until there isn't space left on the screen.

anyways, americans read e.g. british newspapers that comment on american politics, so they're already being influenced. if anything, i'd think that ads would be less effective than more substantive media.

Re: Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:54 am
by WeiWenDi
agga wrote:
Objectivist wrote:Do you believe that foreign interests should be allowed to donate to candidates or run political ads in America? For example, should British citizens be allowed to try and influence American politics through media advertisements?

I'm curious what people think of this concept.


i think anybody should be able donate or advertise whatever they like, so long as we can all see who they are. ads should specify who paid for them, *by name* (i.e. not by some proxy organizational alias), starting with the biggest investors, and working down until there isn't space left on the screen.

anyways, americans read e.g. british newspapers that comment on american politics, so they're already being influenced. if anything, i'd think that ads would be less effective than more substantive media.


Boy, sure would be nice if we could do away with that Citizens United decision, don'tchathink?

Re: Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:03 am
by Zyzyfer
Crazedmongoose wrote:...I managed to convince an amtrak dining cart worth of people to vote Democrats...


Wondering what was going on there? Was it the political discussion dining cart? :wink:

WeiWenDi wrote:The Chinese government taking out ad space in the New York Times to argue for why the Diaoyu Islands are theirs? Fair dos.


Within the context of the comment to which you were responding, and your response, I can't disagree. But it just reminds me of when Korean groups were taking out ad space for Dokdo/Takeshima/Liancourt Rocks. I found it cringeworthy personally, chiefly because nobody outside of East Asia seems to have any idea about it. Korea and Japan spar constantly over various issues (Dokdo, name of sea between Korea and Japan, history revisionism in textbooks) and I understand and respect the purposes behind these scraps. I just feel like Korea taking an ad out in the NYT is more of a cry for international approval...like if the US or UN passes judgment, and it happens to be in Korea's favor, then it is vindicated in the nation's eyes and the dispute ends with Dae Han Min Guk victorious.

Considering how benign overall Korea and Japan's scraps are, I, not being Korean though I call the place home, have to chuckle when either nation tries to take it out of the region. Why bother, I wonder.

China's case is a bit more serious. I mean, with proper riots, some hot "conflicts" popping up, and this undercurrent belief (at least from my perspective) that China still is a dangerous giant against which the US in particular must position itself, it will get media attention anyway. I can see why China would want to garner international opinion in its favor here, and I can agree on paper that China should be able to do this through such means.

But I still chuckled and rolled my eyes when I read what you wrote here. It's practically instinct by now when I hear about a row over a practically uninhabited island being disputed (yes, aware of marine resources etc).

Re: Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:30 pm
by Jordan
But I still chuckled and rolled my eyes when I read what you wrote here. It's practically instinct by now when I hear about a row over a practically uninhabited island being disputed (yes, aware of marine resources etc).


Nationalism will never cease to be a cancer.

Re: Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:44 am
by Zyzyfer
Apparently some Americans do not like the input of foreign interests such as Piers Morgan.

(Figured I'd post this here instead of the gun control thread since it seems to have gone in a direction not concurrent with this link.)

In other tweets, Morgan openly brags about how he is a foreign agent coming to conquer America.


Yeah, us Americans tend to have a hard time with British wit, unfortunately. I've been loosely following the action on Twitter and have to admit that Piers Morgan has written the occasional very tongue-in-cheek response to generic idiocy that made me laugh and at the same time think "Oh, you done done it now..."

Re: Foreign influence on politics in America

Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:14 am
by Dong Zhou
We hate Piers Morgan, there was mass celebrations when he left so send him back and we will declare war :wink:

With partisan politics, it is nice when there is perhaps something that can unite the two parties together. Rejecting, even mocking, this idea should be one of those moments. Would have thought the argument against Morgan would include his attack on Larry Pratt unless I missed that part?