Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby James » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:59 pm

DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:The easiest way to cut medical costs is to forbid profit from it at a regulation level. Hospitals have proven they will charge however much they can get away with, and so will everyone above them in the chain. Doctors have become lazy, equipment is too expensive, and the poor pay the price. Universal healthcare, quite frankly, is the only solution. Medicine and capitalism are a really really really bad mix.

This is another rather idealistic view of things. You can't hope to cut profits from the industry and somehow expect it to continue functioning. Profit plays a role in every relatively functional healthcare system. And more to the point, profit must play a role to be compatible with a society that ties survival to money.

To an extent, money is also important for providing business with the incentive to innovate (whether medical devices or medication), or for a doctor to strive to become the best rather than simply adequate. A degree of money must be involved for a professional to offset the time and resources that go into a greater education.

Here again, the problem is in taking the observation too far. In reality, doctors aren't the greatest perpetrators of the exorbitant costs in our healthcare providers. The greatest offenders are actually those mentioned above—the likes of medical device manufacturers/suppliers and pharmaceuticals. People love to defend them (and the United States system) by saying it is the great profit which allows for great medical innovation, but that's only true to a point. The amount of profit they charge, typically, far exceeds the amount they spend on R&D, carrying them from the bounds of honest industry into corruption (again in my opinion—some think any amount of profit is A-OK).
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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:48 pm

Maybe we need to change our tie to money, then.
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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:27 am

DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:Maybe we need to change our tie to money, then.


These suggestions are becoming more vague I feel like.
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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:45 am

Not at all. Why not get rid of money and let anyone have whatever (within reason of course, no million dollars cars or silly crap) seeing as we produce more than enough to do so. Did you know we have enough housing for there to be no homeless people in America? Problem is that all that housing is just too expensive.
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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:44 am

DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:Not at all. Why not get rid of money and let anyone have whatever (within reason of course, no million dollars cars or silly crap) seeing as we produce more than enough to do so. Did you know we have enough housing for there to be no homeless people in America? Problem is that all that housing is just too expensive.


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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby James » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:51 pm

DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:Not at all. Why not get rid of money and let anyone have whatever (within reason of course, no million dollars cars or silly crap) seeing as we produce more than enough to do so. Did you know we have enough housing for there to be no homeless people in America? Problem is that all that housing is just too expensive.

The main point is that it isn't realistic to do this. Basically you'd need an extremely large subset of sympathetic individuals who were not only capable of essentially overthrowing the government, they'd also need to be competent enough to create a new government in its place that somehow managed to survive in a world where all other countries depend on money.

And more to the point, it wouldn't solve the problem. Where money is no longer the factor differentiating class other factors, such as power/authority, will take their place.
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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:58 pm

and those outside the US, mainly the other countries who rely on US money and currency, might not take it so well. You would probably have to give years notice of intentions to do so everybody else could rebalance their economies

James wrote:
And more to the point, it wouldn't solve the problem. Where money is no longer the factor differentiating class other factors, such as power/authority, will take their place.


Agreed.

Advocating a change of degree of how money loving America is one thing, attempting to attempt a major change of the way the economy works in US (with the effects it has around the world) is going to be a lot harder and like James says, hard to see it happening.
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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby James » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:47 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:and those outside the US, mainly the other countries who rely on US money and currency, might not take it so well. You would probably have to give years notice of intentions to do so everybody else could rebalance their economies.

And hoo-boy, hang on for the ride in the U.S. as other countries ditch the currency.
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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby DreamGoddessLindsey » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:01 am

Well the current state of things is unacceptable and I don't hear any of you coming up with ideas.
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Re: Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act "Obamacare"

Unread postby James » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:43 am

DreamGoddessLindsey wrote:Well the current state of things is unacceptable and I don't hear any of you coming up with ideas.

Sure we have. I mentioned numerous ideas. First and foremost I think a single payer system would be superior, though it's not very realistic in the US political climate. But beyond that we can start by addressing the greatest problems with the system—greed in suppliers, manufacturers, pharmaceuticals—by reforming programs that allow for those abuses, including patent reform or opening up purchasing options. Other decisions would improve the problem, like tort reform.

And I'm not the only one who has covered ideas.
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