Embarrassments of The U.S Military 2011-2012

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Re: Embarrassments of The U.S Military 2011-2012

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:57 pm

Right but that wasnt the case, it was 7 service members including the Lieutenant in Command of the Base Danny Chen was stationed on, that bullied Chen into killing himself, he had nobody he could go to for help, and the commanding officer who you are supposed to as a soldier go to, was basically part of the whole thing.

alright, how bout the recent pictures from 2010 revealing dead enemy combatants being posed as trophies almost with American and Afghan forces?
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Re: Embarrassments of The U.S Military 2011-2012

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:12 am

dan99990 wrote:(And just to be clear, I know that Chen didn't have PTSD, but both are examples of mental health issues, so it seemed relevant.)


He was discriminated/bullied for being Chinese. Not sure having a mental health professional would have helped me, unless they told him to buck up. He lacked a responsive command structure to report to.

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote:Right but that wasnt the case, it was 7 service members including the Lieutenant in Command of the Base Danny Chen was stationed on, that bullied Chen into killing himself, he had nobody he could go to for help, and the commanding officer who you are supposed to as a soldier go to, was basically part of the whole thing.


Which sucks, but it isn't exclusive to the military by any means.

alright, how bout the recent pictures from 2010 revealing dead enemy combatants being posed as trophies almost with American and Afghan forces?



What about it? Servicemen in combat situations often develop coping techniques which include morbid humor about death and corpses. This is likely an extension of that. I only offer that as a means of explanation, not excuse. 'Abusing' the dead (which I "" because I think its crap) is obviously not professional. This case really shows a breakdown in military discipline. From what i read these units are often extended across the country away from central command, where they should be being monitored and kept in line.

In reality, what about it? You surprised 19 year old kids show little concern for the body of a suicide bomber who wants to kill him or his fellow servicemen? I can entertain an argument the conduct was irresponsible for his units safety, but not one where what they did was actually morally reprehensible or a big shock.
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Re: Embarrassments of The U.S Military 2011-2012

Unread postby dan99990 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:07 pm

Shikanosuke wrote:
He was discriminated/bullied for being Chinese. Not sure having a mental health professional would have helped me, unless they told him to buck up. He lacked a responsive command structure to report to.



I figured that the psychiatrist/therapist whatever might have been able to inform an officer about what was going on. Or convince the officer to do something, assuming that they knew what was happening, but chose not to intervene. (I'm assuming that if that's what happened, then the officers probably saw the racial taunting as hazing that would ultimately be harmless.)
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Re: Embarrassments of The U.S Military 2011-2012

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:11 pm

dan99990 wrote:
Shikanosuke wrote:
He was discriminated/bullied for being Chinese. Not sure having a mental health professional would have helped me, unless they told him to buck up. He lacked a responsive command structure to report to.



I figured that the psychiatrist/therapist whatever might have been able to inform an officer about what was going on. Or convince the officer to do something, assuming that they knew what was happening, but chose not to intervene. (I'm assuming that if that's what happened, then the officers probably saw the racial taunting as hazing that would ultimately be harmless.)


Possible. I mean there was definitely not a functioning place for him to lodge his complaints it seems.
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Re: Embarrassments of The U.S Military 2011-2012

Unread postby bodidley » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:48 pm

First off the Secret Service is not part of the military nor is it a military organization.

Secondly, that was my unit and my deployment in 2010 and I was in Zabul. I never saw anything exactly like that going on but I can believe it. I'm not sure exactly how embarrassing it is for the military that some Paratroopers had gallows humor. Stupid yes, evil no. It's hard when you have a unit of 3,400 people, most of them between the ages of 18 and 24, to keep each and every last individual from doing something stupid even when they've been specifically told (and yes we were told) not to do it. My feelings when I was in Afghanistan were that the people we were fighting were evil since they did evil things like shoot children, and I hated them because they killed my buddies. The enemy's death made me happy. That's not to say that people shouldn't play with dead bodies.

Regarding the Danny Chen issue, I disagree that anyone is responsible for suicide but the person committing suicide. I also don't think that the motivation of racism has been established. My experience in the Army was that race relation were immeasurably better than in the civilian world. When I got out of the military I felt like I'd just jumped into a world at least 30 years back in race relations, if such a thing can be chronological. Chen was a troubled young man and frankly wasn't a good soldier and should never have been recruited or allowed to pass initial entry training. Some of the harsh corrective training he received went too far for our military and should have been punished (throwing rocks, depending on the size of the rocks, and some of the name-calling) but it's hardly surprising considering the nature of his indiscretions-arriving to guard duty without a helmet, without water, falling asleep in the guard tower- these are things that could get himself and others killed. I've definitely seen soldiers severely disciplined for less, such as failing to respond to a radio check while on guard.

In today's politically sensitive world it would have been more prudent for his leadership to take his weapon, initiate non-judicial or courts martial punishment, and give him a general discharge under other than honorable circumstances for dereliction of duty, but that would have ruined his life and deprived the unit of a soldier in combat. The tendency of military leaders is to correct problems and move on rather than ruin people. It's also incredible to me how people forget the life and death nature of military operations. It's much better to sweat now than bleed later. I think that politics have gotten in the way of providing training that makes soldiers mentally tough and organizing the force to be as effective as possible on the battlefield.
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Re: Embarrassments of The U.S Military 2011-2012

Unread postby James » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:40 pm

peggynevers wrote:Hi,Friends;
Are you referring to the Secret Service and the prostitutes? Nice sure that counts as an embarrassment to the miliatry.

Yeah, that's what quite a bit of the discussion was about.

I imagine it has already been forgotten by pretty much everyone.
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Re: Embarrassments of The U.S Military 2011-2012

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:51 pm

Criminal charges will not be brought on those that burnt the Koran or those who urinated on dead bodies, they will face miliatry disciplinary action but apparently not a discharge.

I suspect that may not go down well in Afghanistan.
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