Russia vs. Putin

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Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Alicanto » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:52 am

Latest news:

1. A few days ago representatives of different wings(there are four of them: 1) nationalists, 2) liberals, 3) leftists, 4) social activists and other parties) of the opposition signed a pact of self-defense that obliges all parties or other organizations that participate in the protest movement to provide to political activists and leaders(no matter what their political views and affiliation are) whatever help is needed in case of political persecution from the government's part.

2. The next big event is going to take place on the 5th of March. Nobody knows what exactly is going to take place that day. One of possible scenarios is that we gather at the Pushkinskaya Square, then march through policemen and Putinjugend and make a permanent tent camp at the Manezhnaya and Red Squares. If we don't have enough people for it, we'll do it on the 8th which is a holiday. St. Petersburg will join us as well. In any case, expect big rallies in all Russian cities.

3. Some hundreds of Chechen policemen are going to be deployed in Moscow. They may not return home alive. :twisted:

Some photos:

5th of December:
Image

10th of December:
Image

24th of December:
Image

4th of February:
Image
Image

This is what we want:
Image
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:40 pm

You're In Russia????

OK, and besides that, RRAAAAWWWRRRR!! GO PROTESTORS!
Just dont get shot at and or pelted with tear gas mind you.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Shen Ai » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:14 pm

That's brave, but i don't hate Putin at all, so I'm not really of the same mind as the Protestors.
Last edited by Shen Ai on Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Alicanto » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:47 pm

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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Lady Wu » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:04 pm

Perhaps give a bit of a short summary of the events/background leading up to this, Alicanto?

Actually I'm wondering why are people not doing the rally on the day of the presidential elections. What would be the point of voting in the elections anyway? Rigged or not rigged, the list of names on the ballot is not representative of what the people would nominate. And even if the protesters all give their votes to a non-Putin candidate, what good would it do?
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Shen Ai » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:53 pm

Lady Wu wrote:Perhaps give a bit of a short summary of the events/background leading up to this, Alicanto?

Actually I'm wondering why are people not doing the rally on the day of the presidential elections. What would be the point of voting in the elections anyway? Rigged or not rigged, the list of names on the ballot is not representative of what the people would nominate. And even if the protesters all give their votes to a non-Putin candidate, what good would it do?


In regards to that last paragraph, I agree. Putin's too powerful to oust. Besides, he is one of the key reasons the country is still standing, and he keeps things well ordered. Or he did for a while at least.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:41 pm

I'm no fan of Putin, but I don't hold high hopes for the opposition. The problems I can see, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is that:

a) they've yet to gain any kind of appeal outside of Moscow

b) IMO they lack credibility, because half the opposition are ultra-nationalists or stalinists who clearly don't have the interests of democracy at heart, and are just in it for power and anti-putinism.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Lady Wu » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:02 am

Crazedmongoose wrote:I'm no fan of Putin, but I don't hold high hopes for the opposition. The problems I can see, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is that:

a) they've yet to gain any kind of appeal outside of Moscow

b) IMO they lack credibility, because half the opposition are ultra-nationalists or stalinists who clearly don't have the interests of democracy at heart, and are just in it for power and anti-putinism.

I have the same thoughts more or less. The momentum was high right after the Duma election, when there were clear instances of falsification and fraud. But rallying for honest elections is different for rallying for anti-Putinism. I feel that there is a bit of confusion of different issues here.

I just don't think anti-Putin rallies will go anywhere. Navalny is charismatic for sure, but he lacks popularity outside of urban Russia. The current candidates on the ballot are a joke. Putin is right (unfortunately) when he said, "If not Putin, who?"

I really think Russia should have pressed with a Duma recount and seek a reformation from the bottom up, rather than trying to overthrow Tsar Putin's empire.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:11 am

I've worked in electoral politics and am a general avid follower of politics, the key is to try to bring people with you. In Australia we had 11 years of vicious anti-Howardism in the left, and in the UK a similar period of anti-Thatcherism in the 80's (and anti-Reaganism in the US). None of them worked.

This is because unless the incumbent is viciously unpopular (we're talking early Arab Spring/Colours Revolution levels of unpopularity), trying to work up people already opposed to him into a fanatical lather makes for some great news and photos but it won't change regimes, because you're not presenting middle Russia, with an alternative vision.

Like the left in Britain in the 80's DESPISED Thatcher, but they could never present a credible alternate vision to middle UK, what was it? Michael Foot's wild unfocused and overly ideological "longest suicide note in history"? The constant blackouts and piling garbages during the winter of discontent?

It took until '97 for Blair and New Labour to come along and say "hey, forget about how much we said we hate the Tories for a while, here's something new -- BAM! third way politics, now you can have your cake (financial reforms and liberalisation) and eat it too (welfare expansion and social progress). Britain bought it and Labour bought 13 years.


Putin is too personally charismatic and smart to ever be in the position of somebody like Mubarak. The only way to best Putin isn't to convince the country that Putin is ruining the country (because in terms of GDP and living standards, he clearly isn't), it's to paint them a better alternative.

And right now the opposition doesn't HAVE a better alternative to present. What will it be? Back to Yeltsin's shock economic desolation? Back to the communists? To the (imo very frightening) nationalists?
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Alicanto » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:16 am

Lady Wu wrote:Perhaps give a bit of a short summary of the events/background leading up to this, Alicanto?


If I try to properly answer your question, I will eventually write a book. I'll put that simple: Putin is a crook, thief and murderer who runs an ultra corrupt government(think of any kind of corruption and you will find it in Russia) which made Russia a failed state. He had a huge and constantly growing list of enemies who just waited for an opportunity to rebel. Only a spark was needed.

Lady Wu wrote:Actually I'm wondering why are people not doing the rally on the day of the presidential elections.


That is proven to be a wrong tactics. Reasons:
1) It is never approved by the city authorities.
2) Many political activists are representing oppositional parties at the elections as observers.
3) The Central Election Commission is always impossibly slow at counting votes and announcing the results. The level of rage is higher when you already know that you have been stolen 16 millions of votes, than when you still don't know it.

Last time two parties tried to employ that tactics. Other Russia rallied during the elections and everyone was detained. Same thing happened to one of nationalist parties which rallied right after the election. So the next day we were weaker than we could be.

Lady Wu wrote:What would be the point of voting in the elections anyway?


Again, the boycott is proven to be ineffective. Fortunately, last time the majority listened to Navalny who promoted the "vote for any party except the party of crooks and thieves" strategy. The more people go to vote, the more difficult is to draw results Putin wants. In the eyes of people the election with 25% of votes being rigged is MUCH less legitimate than the ones with 5%(many won't even notice that). Also, this helps to get more people involved into politics.

Lady Wu wrote:Rigged or not rigged, the list of names on the ballot is not representative of what the people would nominate. And even if the protesters all give their votes to a non-Putin candidate, what good would it do?


We need to make the regime as weak as possible. Even a pocket opposition becomes more independent when it has more power.

P.S.: Who, if not Putin? When, if not today? Where, if not to hell? See you later. :P
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