Russia vs. Putin

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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu May 10, 2012 11:15 am

WeiWenDi wrote:
True enough. And it isn't as though having had a German Prince Consort was enough to soften Britain's attitudes toward Prussia back in the day, or vice-versa, was it? :(


Indeed. There did seem to be some easing of tensions when people traveled to Germany a lot but we then ended up in world war 1. So travel probably helps but how many are going to travel to Russia from British shores? Or to East Europe, bar sports or drunk stag-nights?

But I believe you see the entire bigotry toward Eastern Europeans from Western European countries is getting slightly out of hand. You have Guido Westerwelle placing an entire nation under an EU embargo for a perceived personal slight from its leadership; you still have Eastern European slaves being trafficked into the Netherlands and the government doing nothing about it (they're more scared of anyone who doesn't look white); and then you have the white ribbon people in Russia and Le Pen's people in France.


Actually, my impression was that it had died down a bit and was more concerned by anti-Muslim feeling. European hatred seemed to be more the "southern countries" vs Germany but there is a problem with west vs east yes.

Not sure which nation your referring too but didn't it involve some sort of criticism of Westerwelle's love life? Nudge my memory if you don't mind?

Isn't white-Eastern European slave trafficking, particularly in regards prostitution, an issue across the west? Not sure what has been done about it becuase, as you say, there focus does seem to be elsewhere.

In fairness to France and Russia, you can widen out the far-right's rise to other countries.

Indeed, all this extremism in Western Europe can't be healthy - did you really learn nothing from that Hitler fellow, or do we have to come in and save all your arses again after you've waved off another sixty million?

(^ said ironically, not chauvinistically, and hopefully not in poor taste)


That America will arrive late then try to hog all the glory? :P I think one problem is the sense that only in Germany could the Nazi's have happened, I think we could do better in showing why Hitler managed to rise so high.

I do fear that (unless Israel kicks it off instead) a major European war will happen with the EU collapsing and maybe a Hitler mark 2 or WW3. When it became clear the economic mess was not going to be a short dip and a painful recovery but the biggest since the 30's, I had a feeling we were going down a long path to mass war. Particularly with Greece, lord knows what an angry militant Greece will do in regards Turkey/Cyprus/the Balkans/winning another Euro by boring everyone to death. Then of course there is the Iberian peninsula, Ireland's problems just as things looked stable, Italy all struggling to avoid going under. I fear the financial crises is, though the far-right was gaining some boost due to immigration, going to lead to a rise if nationalism, a collapse of faith in mainstream parties, a collapse in the EU, more tensions and discrimnation and eventual war.

Too many Greece's and we will see more rises of Neo-Nazi's like the Golden Dawn, as long as they can provide food/medical/needs or simply a sense of purpose and belief to the disenfranchised.

That's a problem. I think something must be done about reinstating some civic sense of pride in the institution of the Throne (along with the Altar and the Cottage, but that is beside the point), such that one needn't dismiss the institution on behalf of the foibles of the person whom it concerns. Historically speaking, this is something the British generally (and the English in particular) have been excellent at doing.


Right now, the Queen, sometimes Prince Philip, WillsandKate and Prince Harry are popular enough to carry the institution. Quite how long it will last for the latter two and if it can overcome Prince Charles is another matter. When popular, the monarchy is a fine tradition, popular abroad, gives a fairy-tale romance, lots of charity work. When unpopular, it becomes sen as an out-of-touch family who are living a lavish lifestyle at the tax-papers expense, a symbol of the inequality and widening divide in the country, so and so on. Charles may try to reform things and that could take it either way

Also apathy could kill the Monarchy. Fewer and fewer devoted Monarchists, most just seem to go "ah yeah, quite nice" if asked.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Jordan » Thu May 10, 2012 8:26 pm

Extremist groups are on the rise, definitely. Whether it leads to world war...I have my doubts. Particularly, even if Greece's animosity runs high, what can Greece really do? It's not a very large or militarily powerful country, and it doesn't really have the same urge for revenge that hovered over Germany before WW2. The Balkans have generally been a pretty big mess, and I would not be surprised over hostilities breaking out there, but I don't think those hostilities will spark another world war. Compared to WWI, there isn't a 'powderkeg' system of alliances in Europe anymore. I have my doubts about fascism or radicalism resurfacing in some of the other countries.

I would definitely pin Israel as a more likely belligerent for ww3.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat May 12, 2012 3:49 pm

Oh if I had to pick who would start WW3 in the next few years, it would be Israel or someone blundering into Syria. If that doesn't happen then I think Europe will head for a major war, even if it doesn't drag the rest of the world into it this time.

Perhaps Greece won't be the cause of that war, maybe Turkey vs Greece won't drag people in or won't happen or the west and Russia will be reluctant to interfere if the Balkans falls apart again. If Spain's system goes belly-up or Italy's or another surprise big giant and the people, as Germany did before WW2, suffer as Greece are then I wouldn't rule out extremist rulers and danger for Europe.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Jordan » Sat May 12, 2012 8:55 pm

One thing I noticed is that Europe seems to have engaged in massive amounts of demilitarization. Robert Gates commented on it, I think, something like a couple years ago. They aren't spending very much on defense or investing in military technology. This in combination with the potential rise of a newly powerful challenger could pose a threat I suppose. However, it simply depends on whether the European countries in question can quickly mobilize manpower and resources during a crisis.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun May 13, 2012 9:09 am

Germany is being told to beef up it's army but even the British our cutting their army down so you have a point.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:35 am

Mikhail Prokhorov has formed a new political party: Civic Platform but says he won't lead it.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Alicanto » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:18 am

Dong Zhou wrote:Mikhail Prokhorov has formed a new political party: Civic Platform but says he won't lead it.

Nobody cares. He is a Kremlin's puppet and does exactly what he's told to do.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:16 pm

Alicanto wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:Mikhail Prokhorov has formed a new political party: Civic Platform but says he won't lead it.

Nobody cares. He is a Kremlin's puppet and does exactly what he's told to do.


Interesting. From the political platform he strikes me as being exactly the kind of Euro-enthused, globalisation-happy neoliberal the NED and the like would want to court. Or perhaps he is seen as merely a front to demonstrate how big a tent Putin can command? I wonder if this is news to him?
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Alicanto » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:42 am

Wikipedia in Russian will be closed on 10th of July because of Russian parliament’s debating of amendments to the law «About information» that could create real censorship of the internet — a blacklisting and filtering of internet sites.

Supporters of the law’s proposition say that it is aimed only at widely prohibited content such as child pornography and «information like this», but conditions for determining the content falls under this law will create a thing like the «great Chinese firewall». The existing Russian law’s practice shows the high possibility of the worst scenatio, in which access to Wikipedia soon will be closed in all country.

On July 11 will be held the second reading of the law in the State Duma. The law will come into force after the third reading, which date isn’t set yet.
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Re: Russia vs. Putin

Unread postby Jordan » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:49 am

Good riddance. I wish the United States would ban wikipedia too. It's a terrible website. :lol:

...alright, half-kidding there (only half though). Internet censorship is pretty poor obviously, but it seems to be a rising trend throughout the world. Russia, lacking the same sorts of democratic processes that a country like the US has, however, seems to be able to simply pass proposed laws on it faster. If they were to stick to only blocking wikipedia, it wouldn't be a big deal really. But the chances of them being so limited with this is kind of slim.
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