Racism

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Racism

Unread postby Hyper90 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:42 pm

we have seen this everyday, everywhere.

share your thoughts and opinions.

and this topic i might refer to the WHOLE WORLD, which means EVERY COUNTRY in this world.

i know racism happens much in Malaysia,America, etc.

Did you met racists ? any impacts on you?
how do we stop it?
why it happens ?
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die. " Sima Yi

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Re: Racism

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:54 pm

Hyper90 wrote:Did you met racists ?


I believe anyone that would answer this question as 'no' are either lying, oblivious, or have some form of alternate definition of the word 'racist'.

So I'll start by saying yes. In fact, I believe in the fact that 'everyone' on this planet is a racist to some extent. It's just a matter of how much so.

any impacts on you?


Not very much I can say in regards to impact on a surface level as I don't care much for what others think of me. Especially in a derogatory manner. I would say I can chalk up lost employment opportunities, differential treatments (well, I have personally had this happen to me so, yes), and a few of the other unspoken treatments have likely occurred throughout my life.

how do we stop it?


I want to say it's impossible but, the better word to use is improbable. That is unless you have everyone breed with one another and create a single race. That in itself will do nothing short of creating some other form of racism. People hate each other due to skin tone even when they belong to the same race, i.e. human race for starters, then let that trickle down.

why it happens ?


There are a number of reasons for this including the ignorant teachings of parents, peers, etc.
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Re: Racism

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:30 pm

Zhuanyong wrote:
Hyper90 wrote:Did you met racists ?


I believe anyone that would answer this question as 'no' are either lying, oblivious, or have some form of alternate definition of the word 'racist'.

So I'll start by saying yes.


Agreed.

Zhuanyong wrote:In fact, I believe in the fact that 'everyone' on this planet is a racist to some extent. It's just a matter of how much so.


Not agreed. Or rather, agreed but only with reservations.

I do not think racism is something that exists in everyone - I don't think small children are born racist, for example. It's been fairly well-established that racist attitudes (or things resembling racist attitudes, like discrimination based on eye colour) have to be trained by outside influences. As I've said before, during the Early Middle Ages, black people were not treated so much as inferiors so much as exotic outsiders - people cared a lot more about what religion you were than what colour your skin was. It was only as Europeans began to expand, for example to the New World, that you got theories of racial superiority in order to justify the slavery and displacement of aboriginals.

Hyper90 wrote:any impacts on you?


Personally?

I've gotten some pretty heavy flak from my grandmother for the fact that my girlfriend is Asian. Rather ironic given that my grandfather got exactly the same flak for marrying the daughter of Jewish immigrants... but other than that, no real direct impacts on me.

Hyper90 wrote:how do we stop it?


Once again, I disagree with Zhuanyong - or rather, agree with him, but with reservations.

I think we can solve the problem of racism. We've made some massive headway since the 1950's, although: some regions of my country in particular (the United States) lag pretty far behind the rest; we have problems of resentment toward anti-racist initiatives from people who didn't grow up with institutionalised racism; and to a large degree the character of racism has gotten buried beneath layers of psychological conditioning. We're not really allowed to publicly and honestly discuss race, because we get useless attitudes like 'problem? what problem? we solved that problem, let's move on', or 'the problem is so intractable and individualised that we shouldn't bother discussing it', or 'but my stereotypes are valid because they're true', or (the most common among American 'conservatives') 'black people are the real racists'.

However, I think in order to really solve racism, we will have to rely on religion. I realise this is a particularly double-edged sword as it can lend itself just as easily to further discrimination... but, at the core of each axial religion is the realisation that all incidental differences among people are ultimately irrelevant in the face of a single, suspended transcendental Truth. This realisation is perhaps the single most powerful tool people have had to combat the psychological effects of racism.

Hyper90 wrote:why it happens ?


In a word?

Capitalism.

Racial theories in their modern forms can be traced directly back to - as I said before - the mercantile and colonial efforts to displace native people from their lands in pursuit of profitable trade (you will note that the first people to do this were the 'modern monarchies' which embraced the enclosures movement -- the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Dutch, the English). The colonial holdings were characterised by 'second son' landlords, immigrant indentured labour and slave labour (either kidnaped from local aborigines or bought from West Africa), and a minor middle class which served also as the middlemen between the colonies and the Mother Country, or between the colonies and slave-traders.

The chattel slavery which arose from these early capitalistic structures was justified in several ways by the colonial powers, but racial theories became, by far and away, the most popular. Once the Enlightenment hit, it became more common to seek 'scientific' explanations for why some people were inferior to others based on their skin colour.

Nowadays, I think such attitudes are largely inculcated from childhood, by family, by the media or by social groups. I think they are largely difficult to fight due to the way any kind of identifiable common good or common morality has sounded a retreat from modern life, and due to the levelling effect this retreat has had on the field of opinion. The opinion that one race is superior to another is indeed an opinion, but it is a wrong opinion and should be eschewed. We don't say 'that's just your opinion' and walk away, easy though that is and tempting though that is in the age of Twitter and iPad 2s.
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Re: Racism

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:58 pm

WeiWenDi wrote:Not agreed. Or rather, agreed but only with reservations.

I do not think racism is something that exists in everyone - I don't think small children are born racist, for example. It's been fairly well-established that racist attitudes (or things resembling racist attitudes, like discrimination based on eye colour) have to be trained by outside influences. As I've said before, during the Early Middle Ages, black people were not treated so much as inferiors so much as exotic outsiders - people cared a lot more about what religion you were than what colour your skin was. It was only as Europeans began to expand, for example to the New World, that you got theories of racial superiority in order to justify the slavery and displacement of aboriginals.


I understand your statement, and I probably should have used a more descriptive means as to why I believe what I stated. As I tend to make posts from work, I usually like to be short and simple when possible to avoid loss of thought due to performing work tasks.

The reason why I cited that 'everyone' is a racist, which in my opinion would include small children is for a few reasons that I have a bit of personal experience in having children myself. Children experience emotions, have dreams, and even hear what is being said by their mother, or if close enough those around them. I believe we can be taught certain things which some tend to overlook at times even before we are born. So, I do believe we all are more or less, in this regards retainers of that particular evil. Sometimes even the smallest gestures by parents and simple phrases go with full notice of children and in my experience, even babies that aren't born but in the developmental stages before birth.

So I would just have to agree to disagree with you there, my friend. :wink:

WeiWenDi wrote:Once again, I disagree with Zhuanyong - or rather, agree with him, but with reservations.

I think we can solve the problem of racism. We've made some massive headway since the 1950's, although: some regions of my country in particular (the United States) lag pretty far behind the rest; we have problems of resentment toward anti-racist initiatives from people who didn't grow up with institutionalised racism; and to a large degree the character of racism has gotten buried beneath layers of psychological conditioning. We're not really allowed to publicly and honestly discuss race, because we get useless attitudes like 'problem? what problem? we solved that problem, let's move on', or 'the problem is so intractable and individualised that we shouldn't bother discussing it', or 'but my stereotypes are valid because they're true', or (the most common among American 'conservatives') 'black people are the real racists'.

However, I think in order to really solve racism, we will have to rely on religion. I realise this is a particularly double-edged sword as it can lend itself just as easily to further discrimination... but, at the core of each axial religion is the realisation that all incidental differences among people are ultimately irrelevant in the face of a single, suspended transcendental Truth. This realisation is perhaps the single most powerful tool people have had to combat the psychological effects of racism.


I didn't want to go into the religion side of the conversation as I tend to do more often than not with serious conversation.

In fact, I completely agree with what I underlined and more specifically the fact that you noted how it is in particular a double-edged sword. I personally believe that your scenario of what bad would come out of it would happen. That is why I didn't mention it earlier. I felt I would have been defeating my purpose of point by stating it.
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Re: Racism

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:30 am

I think objectively I am what many people nowadays consider a racist (though not in the sense of a KKK/neo-nazi racist). Personally, I don't believe I am. I agree that all people are racist, just as all people are discriminatory.
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Re: Racism

Unread postby SunXia » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:45 am

It's a vicious cycle! In order to expect people not to be racist, things like religious killings and their ilk need to stop being carried out!! Cultures will always frown on other cultures, even if there are accepting people within them!! The western civilizations went through a lot before they got where they are today in terms that there is [i]mostly]/i] freedom for everyone!! However, that makes a lot of the peoples arrogant in that they will interfere elsewhere if they don't see the same freedoms!! Racial tolerance needs to be universal and completely worldwide before racism can be completely eradicate even in one country!! If one group of people mistreat another that breeds mistrust which can start a snowball effect!! With so much diversity and misunderstandings in our world, Racism is something along with things like Bigotry, is a work in progress and not something that should be given up on just because the road is hard and fraught with wars and stuff!! The trick is remembering that one bad apple does not make for a tree filled with wasteful fruit or one bad tree does not destroy, nor determine, the forest!!

I don't think Racism, or Worldwide Racial discrimination will be eradicated completely in my lifetime, but neither was it in Martin Luther King's, so it does not mean it should be thrown to the wind as a hopeless cause!!

I used to think I was possibly Racist, since many men from another ethnicity just didn't attract me but I treat them kindly so my tastes are nothing I can help in the same way I am not attracted to a woman!!
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Re: Racism

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:04 am

I think racism and culture are often intermingled.
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Re: Racism

Unread postby Objectivist » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:24 am

Hyper90 wrote:Did you met racists ? any impacts on you?


The first time I ever met a racist I was a teenager and was hanging with my best friend at the mall, when some random yahoo screamed the N word out the window at us. I had seen things on television and heard the word used in joking manners, but had never before heard it used in a hateful way like I did that day.

I'm convinced that the media and the government perpetuate the concept of racism to be a much larger problem than it actually is. Obviously racism still exists. However you have to acknowledge that groups like the KKK are basically thought of today as lunatics. There has been clear progress on the topic throughout recent history, in particular, the last 200 years of the world.

People forget that slavery itself was nothing more than a form of statism. That individuals did not own their own life. Look at my signature below on the philosophy of liberty for a strong lesson on anti-statism. Anyone who endorses the concept that government owns you, is no better than anyone in history who endorsed slavery.

Hyper90 wrote:how do we stop it?


By placing more emphasis on individualism and less on collective, group mentality. When you think of people as individuals, you tend to place less emphasis on their appearance or sex. Race does not matter if all individuals have equal rights under the law...and not because they belong to a group or race or special interest.

Hyper90 wrote:why it happens ?


Government and ignorance. All of the Jim Crowe laws and legalized slavery occurred because of government, not because of freedom. Government taught us what class we belonged in. Government taught us what group we belonged in. Government taught us to believe that we should be dependent upon them...not ourselves to better our lives. The ultimate formula for ending racism is calling for individualism.
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Re: Racism

Unread postby Hyper90 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:35 am

However, I think in order to really solve racism, we will have to rely on religion. I realise this is a particularly double-edged sword as it can lend itself just as easily to further discrimination... but, at the core of each axial religion is the realisation that all incidental differences among people are ultimately irrelevant in the face of a single, suspended transcendental Truth. This realisation is perhaps the single most powerful tool people have had to combat the psychological effects of racism.


People who too stick to their religion pretty much blind them from what they learned too.

i believe most religions supposed have noted to respect other religions no matter what skin tone or beliefs.

but what i see in my country, people don't seem to see the word "respect other religions" in their own.
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Re: Racism

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:49 am

Yes I have met racists. As in affected me personally, not as perhaps meant but given my mother was told she couldn't marry a Catholic/coloured person/Jew/gay/insert everything else here and that she battles so hard to ensure she isn't homophobic/anti-Semitic/racist, it has had something of an effect.

How do we defeat racism? I'm not sure that, now it has out of the bottle, we can ever completely destroy it and the further we push it back, the more other things, seems like homophobia, anti-Semitism and anti-Islam (what's the correct word?), xenophobia and other problems will rise though we have come a long way on racism. Education, coloured problem proving they can do everything a man person can do (see English football/soccer as an example of what I mean), concerted efforts by the authorities to continue making it culturally unacceptable.
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