The World Economics Thread

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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:06 am

TooMuchBaijiu wrote:Objectivist, did you finally kill WWD and assume his identity? Because while I'm certain he wasn't a liberal, I'd be very surprised to see him make a claim that the Republican party (or "conservatism") espoused an economically liberal platform. 'Cause I hardly see how the "Everything Must Go" mentality of the Republican party could be considered anything but laissez-faire capitalism.


Reports of my death and replacement have been greatly exaggerated. :)

And no, I don't think anyone's really mistaken me for a full-blown American liberal (outside n00bs like Objectivist) since I graduated from college. That said, the way I'm using the word 'liberalism' here, in an economic context, is in the European sense of the word - meaning, more or less precisely, policies which align with laissez-faire capitalism. I'm certainly anti-liberal in this sense, because I believe markets are cultural constructs (as in, not the 'natural' state-of-affairs) which possess immense creative and destructive powers that demand and require regulation. I think the Democratic Party is closer to classical conservatism in this sense, in that they are attempting to conserve particular vulnerable political, cultural and economic arrangements against destruction by rampant market forces, while the Republican Party is essentially a latter-day caricature of 19th-century laissez-faire liberal-conservatism.

TooMuchBaijiu wrote:Well, 'ere's a way of puttin' it.


Sad to say, I almost think we could use a good, hard, old-school pitchforks-and-torches proletarian uprising in this country.

TooMuchBaijiu wrote:Sure, he was right. But sacrifices are haaarrd! Seriously, Carter was probably the last president to seriously attempt to deal with our excesses, and few can say he didn't see what was coming. But he perhaps should have, were it possible, to try to tackle one problem at a time. People won't accept being body-slammed with the consequences of their indulgences all at once. And they won't accept that it's their own responsibility. Summer's coming. I bet if you're anything like me, you might have made some personal promises to take this time to get in shape or learn a new language or climb a mountain, and you're do it all, man, you're going to be the motherf---kin' master. But chances are, you won't accomplish anything near what you want to, because of the immense amount of sacrifice necessary to accomplish those grandiose ambitions. I know what you'll tell me, it was school, it was work, you broke your leg, hostage situation this, excuses, excuses. But don't be disappointed, you're only human. What's worse, you're an American. It's almost like you were screwed even before you started.


Hey, speak for yourself, man! I take the bus to school / work everyday; I don't turn on the A/C until I'm sweaty to the point of being legitimately disgusting (or the heat until I'm uncomfortable in a sweater and woolens); sadly, I didn't have recycling services in my old apartment, but I can't have everything. No, I'm not going to be a perfect conservationist or a perfect mother#@king anything, for that matter. And sure, of course I have my materialistic, consumerist wants - just got that new Saxon album Call to Arms, and dude, they sound as badass as ever ('Chasin' the BULLEEEEEET!')! But hell if I'm not going to at least try to live a Kyoto-compliant lifestyle (damn, that's dating me now).

People's collective willpower is physiologically limited, I'll certainly grant you that. But it's at least possible to harness our limited reserves of willpower into some creative ideas for reducing dependence on Middle Eastern petrol the way every president since Nixon has promised.
Some more blood, Chekov. The needle won't hurt, Chekov. Take off your shirt, Chekov. Roll over, Chekov. Breathe deeply, Chekov. Blood sample, Chekov! Marrow sample, Chekov! Skin sample, Chekov! If I live long enough... I'm going to run out of samples.
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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:58 pm

Here's one for debate -- China warns U.S. debt-default idea is "playing with fire"

Does anyone believe that this would really happen? And if so, what do you think the ramifications of such an action would lead to?
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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:23 pm

So basically what you posted Zhaunyong is going back to, if China called in all its financial assets in america that it would bankrupt us??
And no, China and America share a financial symbiotic relationship, and unless China can refocus its economy away from manufacturing of cheap exportable goods over to something else then it won't call in its loans and other assets(t-bills, etc) which would nuke the American economy in the process, and effectively end China's main buyer of exports.
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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:35 pm

I wish someone in Europe would show leadership over the Greece problem. Simply throwing money to buy time and then seeing a few leaders trying to avoid paying their share is not going to help deal with the potential economic disaster for western Europe. So far, nobody seems to be doing what Brown did when the banking system was near collapse and even if the best we can manage is a carefully handled default, better that then suffering a forced default.
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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:05 pm

Despite the BBC making its whole program about South Sudan yesterday, they have done alot of coverage recently on Greece.

One Greece isnt a small country like a Latvia so austereity measures dont work, two it seems to have royally enraged the general populance the minute the parliment even thought of it. Three i dont think the leaders of Europe are willing to burn there hands on the European hot potato, while looking relatively economically sound, only Gemany seems like it could help Greece and get away with it with out too much damage to its own financies in the process, so if anything they should be taking the lead on it....

Ive been hearing this all over the place, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE U.S DEFAULTS ON ITS LOANS????
"We Will Show Wu The Meaning of Fear!"-Cao Cao in DW6
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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby LuXunMaster102 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:02 pm

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote:WHAT HAPPENS IF THE U.S DEFAULTS ON ITS LOANS????


THEN THE WHOLE WORLD ECONOMY WILL GO INTO A DEEEEEEEEEEEP DEPRESSION!!!!!!!! ESPESCIALLY CHINA, WHOM THE U.S. OWE OVER TWO TRILLION DOLLARS!!!

Edit:

Answer to Zhuanyong: I think that the U.S. government will take whatever steps are necessary to diffuse situations causing defaults. However, I think this default has a very very very high chance of occuring.

My Estimate: 70%
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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby Human5 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:07 pm

LuXunMaster102 wrote:
Lord Yang Jiahua wrote:WHAT HAPPENS IF THE U.S DEFAULTS ON ITS LOANS????


THEN THE WHOLE WORLD ECONOMY WILL GO INTO A DEEEEEEEEEEEP DEPRESSION!!!!!!!! ESPESCIALLY CHINA, WHOM THE U.S. OWE OVER TWO TRILLION DOLLARS!!!

That's a whole lot of money!!!! :shock:
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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby TooMuchBaijiu » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:09 am

Lord Yang Jiahua wrote:Ive been hearing this all over the place, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE U.S DEFAULTS ON ITS LOANS????


I dunno. Maybe Ben Bernanke will open one of his six mouths, and sing the song that ends the earth.

It probably will never happen, anyway. Just like the "government shutdown" crisis that happened some months ago, there'll likely be some eleventh-hour negotiation and we'll all get some deal everyone hates, but the debt ceiling will be raised once more and both parties will take credit for anything good that comes of it. After all, the Republicans might be nothing more than a pack of (censored to maintain the pretense of objectivity) but they're not suicidal. Defaulting would be good for no one no where at no time.

Like, nowhere in the world, I mean.
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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby Ranbir » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:45 pm

Japan's debt has been huge since the 90s and they're coping.
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Re: The World Economics Thread

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:20 pm

Japans the worlds leading supplier of technology(computers etc, plus cars and all the lot) to the world isn't it?
Also you have to consider the Japanese state and its people are much more resilient and id say skeptical than the people of the U.S in general, also the fact is that after a major disaster the Japanese have showed their ability to work together as a community and rebuild, versus America when such a disaster as Katrina struck the aftermath saw mass looting and virtual chaos, you dont see this in Japan after the earthquake and tsunami now do you?, rather you see their people working together as a collective to rebuild. In the face of a major disaster if a people can come together and rebuild, imagine how the must be able to handle the extra economic burden post disaster, imagine how well governed their economy must be too.
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