Libya: Civil War and Restoration

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Libya: Civil War and Restoration

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:05 pm

After watching the news over the past several days, I thought Libya deserved a thread just as much as Egypt with the current events.

What are you thoughts on the words spoken by Gadhafi's son, Saif al-Islam al-Gadhafi? He stated that if the protests continued, there would be a river of blood in Libya and civil war would commence.

I believe his words echo very true unless there is some form of international seccession. Though I can also see where the U.S. may look at a potential war as beneficial as it may enable for a removal of Maommar Gadhafi is very much so now back in the limelight as an international pariah as they put it.

Recent News: Libya

EDIT: I changed the name of the thread effective 19, March 2011. Based on the circumstances as of this date, it would be more fitting to carry this title.
Last edited by Zhuanyong on Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Libya: Civil War Looming?

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:25 pm

sic semper tyrannis!

This is no longer a mass demonstration, this is a good old violent revolution and civil war.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/libya-crumbling-amid-massacre-reports-20110222-1b2tp.html

Latest developments

* Protests spread to Tripoli
* African mercenaries gunning down protestors indiscriminately
* Arm depots siezed by protestors
* Air force has bombed several depots
* Two air colonels have defected to Malta after refusing to fire upon protestors
* Libyan UN diplomats have called for Gaddafi to quit; describes Gaddafi as declaring war on the people of Libya
* Muslim cleric has ordered fatwa on Gaddafi, calling any soldiers to kill him
* Eastern city of Benghazi falls to rebels
* Libyan envoy to Arab League also expressed he has joined the revolution



Tyrants around the Middle East should take this as a lesson to what happens should they attempt to use force against peaceful protests.
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Re: Libya: Civil War Looming?

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:28 pm

Indeed!

What I found interesting is that the government was going to go as far as pulling off a Running Manon the protestors. But that was snuffed out, and then of course they tried to cover it up with what their true motives were.
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Re: Libya: Civil War Looming?

Unread postby TooMuchBaijiu » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:58 pm

Crazedmongoose wrote:* Muslim cleric has ordered fatwa on Gaddafi, calling any soldiers to kill him


Finally, a fatwa us infidels can all get behind.

This is civil war. Gadhafi has made it clear he will not be coerced into stepping down, as Mubarak was. Sides have been taken, the military and government is split. Reportedly hundreds have been killed in Tripoli.

I only hope that more and more of the military can be persuaded to throw their hats in with the rebels. That'll settle things, hopefully. And frankly, though I disdain barbaric gestures, I wouldn't mind seeing Gadhafi's severed head paraded through the streets.
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Re: Libya: Civil War Looming?

Unread postby Catalyst » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:05 am

I saw a quote today from twitter that made me burst into tears.

"We have reached the point of no return. We know if we don't die in the streets, they'll kill us in our houses."

This is depressing. And it doesn't look like it'll get better. My heart goes out to those dying, and those who still face death every minute while fighting for what they believe in.
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Re: Libya: Civil War Looming?

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:01 pm

Catalyst wrote:I saw a quote today from twitter that made me burst into tears.

"We have reached the point of no return. We know if we don't die in the streets, they'll kill us in our houses."

This is depressing. And it doesn't look like it'll get better. My heart goes out to those dying, and those who still face death every minute while fighting for what they believe in.


Very saddening indeed.

I read on CNN that the people are already stating that they are experiencing shortages on food. Gadhafi has already stated that he will NOT step down and activists will be executed.

Instead of hearing about what this country is going through so much from the media, I would like to hear some true and unbiased assessments on how this can be remedied and what steps should be taken. Because to be quite honest, I'm tired of the leaders of government run that -- he shouldn't do that and we are going to condemn him for his actions. (Newsflash, he doesn't care)

Of course, what we do hear about is how this is affecting America --

Oil prices up 7%
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Re: Libya: Civil War Looming?

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:32 am

Damn the tyrants damn the army and nuts to them all.
This revolution an war will once again depend on who the military sides with, the government(doubtful) or the people.
Soldiers have consciences too ok, eventually they are going to see the absolute destruction and evils they are doing to their own and stop, and if they don't well then... Hello World, Chaos in Libya, insert foot and elimanate the fools in power, someone somewhere, will be smart enough or have the balls enough to go up and shoot the president or his Close supporters in the government about 10 times or some soldier on guard will when he sees the Ruler Gadhafi. This and throughout all
countries where tyrants reign is the time for heroes and time for individual action, like when Hitler made all those public tours, why didn't somebody snipe him from a window, that is exactly what need to happen to Gadhafi, that stubborn fool needs to feel the point of a gun at his head and then he'll be scared then he'll know what the difference bettween being a martyr (as he has put it) and talking empty words means.(yes he is not Hitler but i use the example of why did not somebody kill him when they had the chance to cite what someone should do to this tyrant.)EDIT: Excuse my rage but yes im sure we all get what im saying. ys i have heard of the Hitler assaination attempts, the July 20th plot Was by Claus VOn Stattufenberg,
and his list implicated many leading generals(like Rommel)as being part. this failed.Im saying someone should have the guts to walk up to the guy and kill his sorry ass, rather than some cheap fail bomb plot.

To all... remember, the people are the origin of all government, they control the actions of their country and can shape it whether as individuals or as a group if the people are determined to change the face of their country(libya) then they so will by any means neccesary. Also, civil war is full of the doers and the speakers, those who will be successful will be determined by either who can appeal to the masses or who can control the guns and as that adapts to the changes of the times, we will see which prevails. Civil War though brutal and chaotic and violent as it may seem, is a neccesary fact which we see throughout history as a means to shape countries, not just China, but Japan, France, Germany,the U.S, Russia, Korea, and basically all of South America and Mexico.Also, any civil war is going to totally alarm any regional neighbors of Libya, as well as the U.S and her allies as well as Any EU nation that is near, nobody will want to see it and if it happens, its not going to be past over like in Sudan or other African Nations, some country will intervene.
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Re: Libya: Civil War Looming?

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:49 am

I don't know about Intervention. The only way I could see somebody intervening successfully is the Arab League, who have enough of their own problems. The EU intervening could quickly turn into a disaster. And in either case, it's not certain who the interveners will be helping.

And for your complaint that no lone wolf makes assassination attempts on leaders to make a martyr out of himself/herself, and you pointed to Hitler as an example....um.....ever heard of the July 20 plot?


I wonder if the Middle East-North Africa will turn into Europe in the late 1700's and early 1800's, as revolutionary governments come into conflict with traditional governments.

Heck, there was always the suggestion of a Pan-Arab/Pan-North African state. Zealous enough revolutionary governments in Egypt and Tunisia may just decide to start aiding rebels abroad.

Of course, I guess I may be just fantasizing, because it's yet not clear where the majority of the rebels stand ideologically, and thus you wouldn't know where the revolutionary governments will stand. In fact, I've heard reports that much of the unrest in Libya is because of tribal backings, I can't imagine tribal coalitions will have any burning desire to spread the zeal of revolution beyond borders, or for the building of a greater North African state.
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Re: Libya: Civil War Looming?

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:18 am

Im not going to debate the probality of assaination attempts on gadhafi, but yeah seriously why doesn't somebody try and i hate to pint out Kennedy,(jFK) but look how that turned out, Oswalt, was the worst yes, but hey he had the guts to try it.
How Come nobody in Libya does now?
Just got back from reviewing the NBC news, its unbelievable that the troops would actually shoot at their own protesters, but for the most part the protesters seem very united as to what they want, which is good to see. So far there really isn't any real leaders besides the above-mentioned cleric, that are realy trying to raise their own opposition to gadhafi and install their own government. So civil war for the moment is 50-50 chance,it s all down to how the people act from here on.
Yes im mad, i simply hate people who would dare order their own troops to shoot their own people, its unjust, unhumanitarian and totally outright Totalitarian but on a less major level and more open and documented scale.
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Re: Libya: Civil War Looming?

Unread postby TooMuchBaijiu » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:50 am

Well, good news: Gadhafi's resorted to hiring African mercenaries. This might not sound good on the face of it, but it shows that his support among the military's so weak that he has to pay for backing. This coincides with another rather pathetic event; he's resorted to practically begging people to come to pro-government rallies, even offering some students master's degrees for showing up. Man, if it only were that easy for me to get a Master's...
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