WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby James » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:55 pm

agga wrote:there's a report in NYTjust now which is interesting - the govt is trying to suppress dissemination of the leak info by suggesting that linking to wikileaks info on your blog, facebook page, etc., might preclude you from getting a job with the state dept. on top of this, US domain name servers, paypal, and other important bits of internet infrastructure have abandoned wikileaks. the govt is already pushing back really, really hard, and at high enough levels that of course we can't see any of it (until, one hopes, it is one day leaked).

I think a lot of this is subject to interpretation. It probably goes without saying that the government does not want that information to be disseminated any more than is necessary. The letter referenced above may or may not carry official authority and I bet it would be quite hard to enforce, unless said diplomat kept that information on their sites at the time of their review, so it is probably just huffing smoke for the most part. Well, that, and a future diplomat should probably get in the habit of following United States law anyway...

As for the likes of Amazon, PayPal, etc.: they've pretty much all come out and said that they terminated WikiLeaks due to ToS violations, pointed out what violation was made, and stated that it was not due to government pressure. Is that certain truth? No, who knows what the real truth is. There may indeed have been government pressure. I'd be inclined to guess that some of these companies just didn't want to be associated.

Some senators have actively worked against WikiLeaks and I think it would be foolish to believe that other elements of the government weren't working against WikiLeaks as well, but much of this is probably due to independent action.
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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:23 pm

Just caught this on CNN --

Assange arrested on Warrant

It was to be expected, I'm waiting to see how far this one goes.

WikiLeaks has also posted a massive, closely encrypted file, identified as "insurance" -- a file Assange's lawyer has described as a "thermonuclear device." Assange has said the more than 100,000 people who have downloaded the file will receive the key to decoding it should anything happen to him or should the site be taken down.
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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby James » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:15 pm

He was arrested in relation to the rape charges (or so that is what we are hearing). If he is indeed guilty of it, may he be crucified. He's being targeted at a higher profile than people who have committed similar crimes, though. He's basically on Sweden's equivalent to the United States' FBI Most Wanted List.
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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:23 pm

James wrote:He was arrested in relation to the rape charges (or so that is what we are hearing). If he is indeed guilty of it, may he be crucified. He's being targeted at a higher profile than people who have committed similar crimes, though. He's basically on Sweden's equivalent to the United States' FBI Most Wanted List.


I know what he was arrested for, however I'm not so sure that is the real reason of his arrest. I read the captions on screen as to what the charges were while on break.

Points to the (or so that is what we are hearing) part of your comment. That is more or less what I think of the matter. The women may be a decoy to nail the guy. And there is also the fact that he may just be guilty of rape.

They are probably 'negotiating' with him as we speak.
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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby James » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:46 pm

In other news, Comedy.

Zhuanyong wrote:I know what he was arrested for, however I'm not so sure that is the real reason of his arrest. I read the captions on screen as to what the charges were while on break.

I figured. Some of that I tossed out for people who may not have been following articles on the story (most every article I've read has discussed the charges he turned himself in for). On that note, it does sound like he turned himself in, so it could just be a strategic step he's worked out with his lawyers. They've got all this new snazz going on with an encrypted file which people can download. If something bad happens, they'll allow it to be decrypted. Can't find that article now that I've read it, though.

Zhuanyong wrote:Points to the (or so that is what we are hearing) part of your comment. That is more or less what I think of the matter. The women may be a decoy to nail the guy. And there is also the fact that he may just be guilty of rape.

But yes, I'm not going to take much of this at face value.
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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:54 pm

James wrote:In other news, Comedy.


It is pretty comical indeed. Is this going to be this administrations version of the movie Hackers?
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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:08 am

He didn't commit rape. Some Swedish women were butthurt that he wouldn't take a test to see if he had STDs, so they accused him of rape later in order to bring him to court. The rape charges were dismissed and only brought to light to begin with because the laws in Sweden are absurd regarding the matter. IIRC, because his condom broke by accident on one occasion, it was considered in the Swedish law books to be the least significant form of rape.

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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby agga » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:59 am

James wrote:As for the likes of Amazon, PayPal, etc.: they've pretty much all come out and said that they terminated WikiLeaks due to ToS violations, pointed out what violation was made, and stated that it was not due to government pressure.


paypal and mastercard have both said that they've dumped wikileaks due to "illegal activities" without specifying what these are. i think it's fair to say that they can only be responding to threats of legal action from the government, i.e. "governemnt pressure".

from what i've read amazon hasn't actually stated their justification aside from (is it just a rumor?) they did it because the DoS attacks were bogging them down. i don't know if this is standard for a big ISP though, to dump customers because they're being attacked by hackers.. i assume (with less justification) that again they were contacted by important people who suggested it would mean trouble for them to continue hosting wikileaks sites.

we have people in congress saying that wikileaks should be listed as a terrorist organization with all that entails - people in the administration screaming about what a threat to national security the leaks are, etc. they can't just be talking - they must be trying to do something about it, don't you think?
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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby Harimau » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:19 am

Regarding amazon, visa, mastercard and paypal... An observation going around the nets is that they'll accept business from the KKK, but not from the charity associated with Wikileaks.

I just took a look at KKK's website (http://www.christianconcepts.net/contribute.htm) and it's true that they take visa/mastercard, but that in itself doesn't really say much. They could be using a payments system that just naturally accepts visa/mastercard.

The charge regarding paypal doing business is more interesting (since they deal directly with the customer), but I couldn't see anything on their website about using paypal to donate. There's articles on the web claiming this, though: http://www.screw-paypal.com/news_headli ... s.html#kkk

---

In other news, the Australian government has finally grown some balls and defended Assange - an Australian citizen, and blamed poor US security for the leak instead. About time. It seems a bit suspect though that Kevin Rudd (foreign minister, formerly PM) has finally done this just as revelations came this morning that US diplomats called him a control freak, and an incompetent (which he was IMO).

Wow, we live in such interesting times!
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Re: WikiLeaks: Revealing Open Secrets

Unread postby James » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:47 pm

agga wrote:paypal and mastercard have both said that they've dumped wikileaks due to "illegal activities" without specifying what these are. i think it's fair to say that they can only be responding to threats of legal action from the government, i.e. "governemnt pressure".

I disagree. It isn't fair to draw that conclusion, nor do we have enough information to do so.
It is just as likely that they noticed how big an issue this was becoming and didn't want to be involved.

agga wrote:from what i've read amazon hasn't actually stated their justification aside from (is it just a rumor?) they did it because the DoS attacks were bogging them down. i don't know if this is standard for a big ISP though, to dump customers because they're being attacked by hackers.. i assume (with less justification) that again they were contacted by important people who suggested it would mean trouble for them to continue hosting wikileaks sites.

Woah. I just searched through some articles looking for the information I originally read and it is nowhere to be found. Nearly all of them contain wild speculation about government pressure, DDoS attacks, and other BS, with no proof to back it up other than what Liberman vomited up. Even if they disagree with Amazon, they could at least pay some degree of homage to their actual explanation of the event.

You can assume, sure. You can assume that these companies are lying and that the government was really the entity behind this throwing out all the pressure, but that's not something we can back as fact.

agga wrote:we have people in congress saying that wikileaks should be listed as a terrorist organization with all that entails - people in the administration screaming about what a threat to national security the leaks are, etc. they can't just be talking - they must be trying to do something about it, don't you think?

Certainly! The ones that are this outspoken, I imagine, are trying to do something about it. I'll at least point out that you're making it sound like a little more of an uproar than it has been, though. There are some very very outspoken people involved, though. What you're overlooking, though, is that some of these big companies involved do not cave easily to pressure, including pressure from the government. This is probably more along the lines of them dealing with an organization which is very easy for them to define as illegal, and as such, they're far more likely to sever ties with it. It isn't fair to automatically assume it was the government that forced them to do it in all of these cases.
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