Gun Control

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Should Gun control be allowed?

Yes
117
52%
No
82
36%
Other (please explain)
26
12%
 
Total votes : 225

Re: Gun Control

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:58 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:as well as acquiescing to governmental intrusion into private aspects of their life (such as mental health)

Even on mental health for something very dangerous if things go wrong?


Tough subject for me. Personally, I'm ok with background checks on certain weapons (though have to specify why different standards). I'm not big on having a hunter submit to mental evaluation to purchase equipment to go hunting. I think most individuals are presumed to be of sound mind. Additionally, if Americans know their ability to purchase firearms could be affected by mental health professionals, I'm not sure many would be very candid with them.


Sun Fin wrote:
I understand everything you've said and I get that you guys put a lot of stock in your constitutional rights but I find it terrifying that you don't check peoples mental health before you let them have a gun. I'd have expected that should be the bare minimum.


Well, we also don't require a mental evaluation for individuals who operate a motor vehicle and that is also a deadly tool. But I get where you're coming from. It might seem backwards to many outside the U.S. But most intrusions into an area of constitutionally protected freedom require a justification. As I've said above, I'm personally not offended by it with weapons which are easily concealed or which are not designed for civilian use.
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Re: Gun Control

Unread postby Xiahou Ren » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:58 pm

Shikanosuke wrote:Well, we also don't require a mental evaluation for individuals who operate a motor vehicle and that is also a deadly tool. But I get where you're coming from. It might seem backwards to many outside the U.S. But most intrusions into an area of constitutionally protected freedom require a justification. As I've said above, I'm personally not offended by it with weapons which are easily concealed or which are not designed for civilian use.

How about this for justification? Gun has a high "fatality level" (not rate). The "fatality level", I'm trying to address here specifically means "the power of causing death or disaster". In short terms, guns makes it too easy to kill people. One press of a button, or trigger, and someone would likely die. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to actually kill people with other tools/vehicle.

Guns could turn some random Joe into a bringer of death, if he wills it. Didn't we have enough random school shooting already? No civilian should be allowed to casually become that much powerful. This is why I'm against the ownership of gun/explosive/any other form of deadly equipments as a form of self defense, constitutional rights, or worse... form of entertainment. You wanna have fun? Read a book, get drunk, browse porn, or something... anything is better than playing with deadly weapons.
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Re: Gun Control

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:03 pm

A guns purpose is to cause harm, whether that is to animals or humans, for legal or illegal purposes that is its primary function. A cars function is to get you from a to b. Yes it can be abused but there is a difference as far as I'm concerned between something that's primary function is as a weapon and something that can be misused as one.
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Re: Gun Control

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:15 pm

Xiahou Ren wrote:How about this for justification? Gun has a high "fatality level" (not rate). The "fatality level", I'm trying to address here specifically means "the power of causing death or disaster". In short terms, guns makes it too easy to kill people. One press of a button, or trigger, and someone would likely die. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to actually kill people with other tools/vehicle.


Except it isn't, as evidenced by the fact that people die via these other tools and vehicles at an alarming rate. But you do have a point, as WWD illustrated very well above describing it as a 'multiplier effect' I believe. But I'm not sure the purchase of a firearm for a legal use, and its potential to be used incorrectly, is a sufficient legal justification to require an individual to speak to a psychiatrist.

Guns could turn some random Joe into a bringer of death, if he wills it. Didn't we have enough random school shooting already? No civilian should be allowed to casually become that much powerful.


Sure we have, and its wrong and tragic. And we should do more to prevent it. But we're required in America, to strike a balance between constitutional rights and interests.

This is why I'm against the ownership of gun/explosive/any other form of deadly equipments as a form of self defense, constitutional rights, or worse... form of entertainment. You wanna have fun? Read a book, get drunk, browse porn, or something... anything is better than playing with deadly weapons.


Well, you're free to be against anything you dislike. I'm personally not going to be against someone utilizing something they're constitutionality entitled to defend themselves or to do any other legally permissible activity.


Sun Fin wrote:A guns purpose is to cause harm, whether that is to animals or humans, for legal or illegal purposes that is its primary function. A cars function is to get you from a to b. Yes it can be abused but there is a difference as far as I'm concerned between something that's primary function is as a weapon and something that can be misused as one.


There is certainly a difference, and I acknowledge that. A cars function is to get you from point to point b i agree. and along the way you may errantly (or not) kill multiple individuals. Either way, I'm not saying there can't (and shouldn't) be restrictions on both of these tools. But I believe there has to be a balance, in our country.
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Re: Gun Control

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:16 am

I agree with you in essence Suke but personally I would rather that the balance was more in favour of checks. Like I get that hunting etc is a more common hobby in the USA then here and so there perhaps doesn't need to be the emphasis on the buyer to prove why they want one but I do think things like mental health checks should be the minimum!
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Re: Gun Control

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:43 pm

Sun Fin wrote:I agree with you in essence Suke but personally I would rather that the balance was more in favour of checks. Like I get that hunting etc is a more common hobby in the USA then here and so there perhaps doesn't need to be the emphasis on the buyer to prove why they want one but I do think things like mental health checks should be the minimum!


That is understandable, and I really don't expect you to change your mind. I think the system Britain has works well for Britain. While much has changed in America over the years, and will continue to change in the wake of such sadness, the entire approach to firearms is markedly different. For many Americans (though not all), ownership of firearms is integral both to their way of life and their identity. And just in case it seems, as often happens when debating an opposite viewpoint, I do want to reiterate I do support some gun control.
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Re: Gun Control

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:17 pm

With mental health checks, while there is a case for (like they perhaps should with cars) a medical every... say ten years, I was more thinking that every time you brought, your name got checked on a register before you get said gun. Or medical staff could order you to give up guns (like they should be able to with driving licence)
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Re: Gun Control

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:44 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:With mental health checks, while there is a case for (like they perhaps should with cars) a medical every... say ten years, I was more thinking that every time you brought, your name got checked on a register before you get said gun. Or medical staff could order you to give up guns (like they should be able to with driving licence)


To be honest, I'm not sure I'm willing to sign the capacity to pursue a constitutional right to over to the whim of mental health professionals. I'm not sold on their qualifications to make judgments on who should and should not possess a firearm, and if they prove faulty predictors of mental illness..may victims sue them for their faulty mental health assessment? Furthermore, who bears that economic cost? America has a high number of gun owners, I'm not certain we have enough mental health professionals, especially in rural areas, to logistically accommodate such a regulation. Lastly, many people endure a mental "illness" at least once in their life (be it simply mild depression), should this bar them from gun ownership? For how long? Does it only rely on self-attestation?

To be clear, I'm not asking you or Britain to have all the answers to these questions, I just think they're tough questions. I don't think its as easy as saying 'well if we just every gun owner go see a doc, we'd prevent gun-related homicides'. I think I'd rather focus on improving mental health issues in general.
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Re: Gun Control

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:10 pm

It would b up the medical profession to decide if a condition barred one from holding guns for how long. We can't even strip the elderly of their driving licenses when their eyesight is too bad so harder regulation then that would be required for any gun medical checks
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Re: Gun Control

Unread postby bodidley » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:03 am

Dong Zhou wrote:It would b up the medical profession to decide if a condition barred one from holding guns for how long. We can't even strip the elderly of their driving licenses when their eyesight is too bad so harder regulation then that would be required for any gun medical checks


You often won't be able to see an intruder in your home in the dark anyway. Severe senility would be another issue. But these cases would have to come up in court, not in registration. It's logistically impossible for psychiatrists to give a fair examination to everyone registering a weapon.
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