2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:26 pm

Lexus Fiend wrote:Whatever you say man... she's an attractive lady who looks like a librarian. If you know of far sexier librarians please send me your library card so that I may go check out some 'books'.


Whoa, chill. Maybe I should have put [joke][/joke] around that? (And I did say she was good-looking...)

Lexus Fiend wrote:There is no way that I would vote for Sarah Palin as the President of the United States, unless she all of a sudden changes a solid 100% of what she is about politically, how she speaks (not the accent), how she conducts herself, and what she is and isn't aware of despite what her party tells her to say, she wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting my vote. She's a popularity figure and nothing more, all appearence, no substance, notable only because she is female. And I hope that doesn't come across sexist beause it's absolutely not, she's just not fit to run the most powerful nation on earth and I highly doubt anything can be done to sway my opinion on that. If she were to get a nomination in 2012 then there will be a three-peat on two-term presidents with Obama being the latest addition to the club.


Agreed completely. And, seriously, it isn't as though there aren't a number of intelligent, capable, conservative women in the country who would make very viable candidates - Susan Eisenhower and Olympia Snowe come readily to mind. (Granted, Maine is not quite Alaska - there are considerably fewer loonies in Maine.)

From where I'm standing, Huckabee actually comes off looking better and better. Though I wouldn't vote for him myself (his pro-war, anti-science and anti-gay rights stances are as objectionable to me as ever), he still strikes me as a thoughtful and responsible conservative who is willing to engage those who disagree with him and try to find common ground rather than retreat behind his talking points (like Palin) or go on long ideological rants (like Ron Paul). I was duly impressed by his interview with Jon Stewart - he articulated himself well, and didn't dodge the tough questions on gay rights that Stewart threw his way the way I thought he would.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby lessthanpleased » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:56 am

I've noticed it's really easy for Louisianans to like Bobby Jindal, hence people like Lexus providing provisional, tepid support for the vague prospect of Jindal's candidacy.

But what I have yet to hear are Louisianans who kind of like Jindal to give substantive reasons for liking Jindal.

That's not a knock on you, Lexus, or anyone else in Louisiana, really. But beneath the hype Jindal's kind of an empty suit - Bobby Jindal's reputation is being a competent, smart and reasonable Republican, so most people accept that he is and move on. It's what his brand means, to use marketing terms.

Our press has bought into it - to read real criticisms of Jindal in the Louisiana media you have to go to the college newspapers.

But I think that once Jindal is on the national stage, lots of people are going to have problems with his history as a personal exorcist who held down an unwilling woman to cast out the demon (we know he's cast out demons at least twice, according to an article he wrote for the New Oxford Review); his anti-choice views that make no allowances for the health of the mother; his repeated attempts to teach creationism in public schools; his orders to cut education; and his tax cuts and spending bankrupting the state.

Unless, of course, the press keeps repeating the line about Jindal being competent, smart and reasonable. Then there're no guarantees.

-neal
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Jordan » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:03 pm

I don't know who will be the Republican nominee. I think Barack Obama will win again, though. You can never know these things for sure. There might be some horrible scandal that undermines him later on. Aside from a few questionable appointments that didn't go through anyways, he's done an ok job thus far though. I think he will have no trouble winning again if he continues at this pace.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Tigger of Kai » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:35 pm

Probably something should be said about the latest Rush Limbaugh controversy. On the one hand, the people who are condemning him, not only do they never listen to his show, they would never listen to his show. "Oh! whatever would my family and friends think of me if they caught me listening to that man? Oh! goodness gracious!"

On the other hand, Limbaugh doesn't seem to realize how ridiculous he looks, giving a tub-thumping victory speech so soon after a total Republican defeat. Indeed this is something he never seems to realize. I find the more soul-searching approach that Tucker Carlson is taking to be more appropriate.

And on my third hand, who the hell is Michael Steele? Doesn't he have envelopes to stuff?
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby lessthanpleased » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:42 am

I don't know, Tigger, I'll tune into Rush every now and again but I always turn it off sooner or later because he hasn't changed his schtick in twenty years. I do know that some professional Democrats listen to him, but that's more opposition research than anything else; I couldn't do it for a living just because it'd be so boring and repetitive.

The Rush attack, though, is one of the most clever I've seen in a long while. He's clearly a fringe lunatic who happens to appeal strongly to the people who fund Republican candidates and do their GOTV; Unfortunately, everyone else despises the man. So forcing Republicans to either piss off 75 percent of America by speaking out against Limbaugh or setting themselves up for primary challenges from the Limbaugh wing of the party is pretty brilliant, tactically speaking. If it works, it continues to consign the Republican party to regional status; If it fails, it allows Republicans to rid themselves of the right-wing militia mentality.

The great thing about Michael Steele is that he's a 70 year old white guy's idea of a black guy. It's disturbing and embarrassing for anyone forced to watch Steele, but about what I'd expect from the Republican party at this point; They've had the chance to take their timeout and think about what they did wrong (like the Tories did), and they've chosen to pretend they did nothing wrong. Picking a guy like Steele to put a new face on the policies that made the party a party of white baby boomers is par for the course.

-neal
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby ZhouTai50 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:42 am

At the moment, no Republican really comes to mind who I think could really defeat Barack Obama in four years, bar some horrendous scandal or catastrophe. The ones out there are either the same cut and paste Republican politician that was refuted this past election, or don't have enough popular support to ever make it far.

Bobby Jindal, who Republicans seem to be big on right now, has not shown anything that would be different between him and Generic Republican #2, aside from a folksy speaking style and a centrist message that his record doesn't back up. I doubt his surge of popularity lasts until the next election.

Mike Huckabee has always seemed like a nice and congenial sort to me. Granted, I'd never vote for him given his stance on social issues and inclusion of his religion in so many of his stances. However, he isn't afraid to defend his views, and doesn't negatively attack the opponent while doing so. Watching his debate with Jon Stewart on the Daily Show a few months back was great. Though I think Stewart actually got the upper hand in the debate, Huckabee came off extremely well to Republicans. I think he's probably the best chance to be the nominee right now.

Sarah Palin...never gonna happen. The last election pretty much ruined any political future outside of Alaska that she may have had and even Republicans are not fond of her. I doubt she even puts her name in for the primaries.

Michael Steele seems to be a weak effort by the Republicans to inject someone of ethnicity into a leadership position in the party. He's not confident on issues and frankly, has no business being in his current position. Would never make it out of the primaries.

Then you have the more fringe candidates like Ron Paul, who may have a slight boost in the next election, given that once ardent, mainstream conservatives are now looking a bit outward for a candidate, people like him could end up getting farther than anyone ever thought they would. Still, I doubt Paul would actually get the nomination for a variety of reasons.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Tigger of Kai » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:24 am

lessthanpleased wrote:I don't know, Tigger, I'll tune into Rush every now and again but I always turn it off sooner or later because he hasn't changed his schtick in twenty years. I do know that some professional Democrats listen to him, but that's more opposition research than anything else; I couldn't do it for a living just because it'd be so boring and repetitive.

I suspect that liberals can sometimes endure repetition, e.g. when listening to their heroes talk about how stupid Rush Limbaugh is.

The Limbaugh crisatunity enabled King Barack to illustrate in practice one of his favorite sayings, that we must "learn to disagree without being disagreeable". Jack Shafer of slate.com was early on this one:

According to the Chicago Tribune (Aug. 4, 2004), Obama borrowed the disagree/disagreeable trope from Sen. Paul Simon, who pinched it from "three dozen self-help books." I always blanch when Obama uses this construction because it deliberately marginalizes the views of anybody unwilling to match Obama's temperament—which is to say the rest of the planet. And I don't know which is more damning—the fact that Obama's cliché was plucked from a self-help book or that so many bobble-head in agreement whenever he uses it.


Limbaugh cannot match Obama's temperament, and, just as Shafer predicted, he has been marginalized in the press as "angry", "extremist", and (my favorite) "a self-promoter". According to my calculations, the only earthling capable of matching Obama's temperament is the expressionless Anderson Cooper of CNN. Good luck to the GOP on getting him to run in 2012!
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:23 pm

ZhouTai50 wrote:Mike Huckabee has always seemed like a nice and congenial sort to me. Granted, I'd never vote for him given his stance on social issues and inclusion of his religion in so many of his stances. However, he isn't afraid to defend his views, and doesn't negatively attack the opponent while doing so. Watching his debate with Jon Stewart on the Daily Show a few months back was great. Though I think Stewart actually got the upper hand in the debate, Huckabee came off extremely well to Republicans. I think he's probably the best chance to be the nominee right now.


That's presuming, of course, that Republicans share your enthusiasm for thoughtful, decent and 'congenial' speakers. I have to confess, I like Huckabee even though I disagree with him on a hell of a lot; he's an interesting fellow with strong convictions and from listening to him I don't think he's willing to allow himself to become a shill and a mouthpiece the way McCain tragically did. But apparently, decency and congeniality are 'elitist' things now, and that's not what Republicans tend to look for in their candidates anyway - I have observed that they generally want someone who can pander to strong emotions, and who can rile the base. During the primaries, Huckabee proved not too good at that.

In this respect, I think we're more likely to see Palin (or someone like her) on the ticket than Huckabee.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Patricoo » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:38 pm

WeiWenDi wrote:In this respect, I think we're more likely to see Palin (or someone like her) on the ticket than Huckabee.


I promise you, the RNC won't allow it.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Mistelten » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:00 am

The RNC is a failed enterprise. There are more Conservatives in America than there are Republicans. The problem is that many are slow to act and embrace a more radical party that upholds the values of Liberty. Right now, the rising star of the Republican party is Bobby Jindal, for the same reason that the compromised McCain had his only popularity boost when Palin was added to his ticket.

The RNC will either have to return to the principles that gained it a Conservative base or it will eventually lose even the slowest ones.

There's a lot of things to say against such seemingly indifferent people, but that's why Tolkien wrote the Ents the way he did.


All of this is assuming that we don't have a crisis followed by secession, which would be far better for us in the long run. The question is, do people have the guts to follow through with it, or will we remain shackled to a corpse for a while longer?
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