2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Shikanosuke » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:24 am

Mistelten wrote:Life was better in the American colonies than anywhere else on earth at the time, including England. The average American was 2 inches taller than his English counterpart because he had more food and space. Thanks to local rule, he also had more freedoms. This was what we were fighting to keep, so it certainly applies in any similar situation.


Which may have applied to Americans then, but none of that means we'd have better lives now if we'd secede. You use a possible fact of the past to assume a conclusion for the future. The same kind of "return to our roots" crap we always hear.


Life may be good here, but we are rotten on the inside.


Hm. Not sure if you can really qualify that statement, or we'd get "un-rotten" by seceding.


We work hard - government workers do not.


I work in state government currently. Much like any other workplace, there are lazy people and there are hardworkers. There are cushy jobs and difficult jobs. Characterizing government workers, and theres a huge number of them, as not working hard is an unfair and uneducated generalization.

We pay taxes - government officials, apparently, do not.


Really? Could have sworn I've seen people having to resign from potentially great jobs because they had to pay their taxes. I think you don't see it correctly, all people try to get out of paying taxes...not just governmental officials. Thinking otherwise is intellectually lazy and just more conspiracy talk.

We make the country survive - they do not.


They are part of the country, they are us. Americans are so rooted in interactions with the government they have no clue how much they'd be screwed without some of the basic services it provides. Don't think you're part of the 'backbone' of America, and rest of those out there aren't.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Antiochus » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:27 am

Mistelten, I think your analysis is flawed.

Just take away the constant wars with the French neighboors and a lack of freedom due to a colonial relationship with GB. Not to mention that the lack of unity of the 13 colonies is one of the reason it took them so long to actually end its conflict with New-France, who had the advantage of being politically united.

What you do is an impressive case of Selective Historical Analysis. You either choose to ignore basic historical facts like the political weakness of the 13 colonies during that period, their constant need for foreign resources and their dependence on a European metropolis, all problems that were solved by uniting the said colonies.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Tigger of Kai » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:35 am

Mistelten wrote:The average American was 2 inches taller than his English counterpart because he had more food and space.

You're right!

"analysis of a sample of recruits from the Revolutionary Army (1775-1783) indicates that the final height of native-born white males between the ages of twenty-four and thirty-five averaged 68.1 inches.The figure is not only one to four inches greater that the final height of European males reported for several nations during the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries, but is also virtually identical with final heights in the Union Army during the Civil War and in the U.S. Army during World War II." source


However these data clearly show that since then Americans have not declined in this regard.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Patricoo » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:50 am

Tigger of Kai wrote:
However these data clearly show that since then Americans have not declined in this regard.


Yay! We're tall! Take THAT short nations! America go step on you now! Grrrr!
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Antiochus » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:55 am

I think that Tigger's point is that the phisical size of the average American was not really affected by Mistelten's idea of the USA's tyranny.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Patricoo » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:28 am

Antiochus wrote:I think that Tigger's point is that the phisical size of the average American was not really affected by Mistelten's idea of the USA's tyranny.


Nonsense. It means that us Americans were born to look down upon the lot of you.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Tigger of Kai » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:43 am

Actually the Dutch are significantly taller than Americans. And their country isn't quite governed according to crashmanian principles!

Komlos, who has studied height differences between the U.S. and the Netherlands, says the most recent data shows Dutch boys reaching adulthood are over 6 feet tall, and 2.2 inches taller on average than their American counterparts, a gap that has been increasing since World War II. source


This has been way more fun than talking about Bobby Jindal. I'm so glad crashman is back. :)
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Mistelten » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:26 pm

I think the physiological differences between the American colonists and the Britons are a signifigant factor because they were of the same ethnicity, so there is something to be said for the quality of life for the former. The dangers associated with living on the frontier obviously did not outweigh the traditional liberties that the colonists enjoyed, which is why they stayed and eventually fought a war to remain as they were. The French and Indian War only proved to the colonists that the British Government was more interested in their use as a source of income and as cannon fodder than they were in their rights as English citizens.

On another note I know that politicians pay taxes. Obviously they do. I made that statement in reference to the recent scandals in Obama's cabinet - just a harmless jest.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby Antiochus » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:58 pm

Well, the French Canadian's are also taller than their Europeans cousins and yet political freedom/hapiness has never really met a consensus.
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Re: 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Speculation

Unread postby football11f » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:31 am

I believe speculating on the 2012 election right now is a sign that you have too much time on your hands.

Just saying, lol.

Now excuse me while I watch the dramatic chipmunk video for the 10th time today.

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