Barack Obama

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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:12 pm

On the other hand, Paul Krugman (also known as the heterosexual American reincarnation of John Keynes) is cautiously optimistic about the Obama budget, while noting that it rests upon a couple of rather hefty assumptions about what projects we're going to be funding in the near future. I'm somewhat leery of the shape Obama's 'health-care reform' will take - though universal coverage would probably be a vast improvement, I sincerely hope that he will allow for some individual accountability in health insurance so that smokers and reckless drivers don't cheat the system.

Otherwise, though, I think this budget paints a decent picture of Obama's priorities, and where he expects to run with his foreign policy. Good news on my end - the foreign policy issues were what drove me firmly into the Democratic camp in the first place, back in '02 or thereabouts, and personally I'm glad to see that a Democratic president is making plans to change course over the next four years.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby Jordan » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:51 pm

James wrote:Holy crap! I would never want to admin this forum:

http://theobamaforum.com/

And I feel really bad for Obama knowing he's got 'supporters' like some of these people...


Originally Posted by KarlMarxFan123 View Post
Personally I don't see why opposing viewpoints should even be allowed. We just had elections last November and the people spoke clearly. We're in charge now. We've had enough of their crap. Whatever.


Rev Shahpton wrote:I agree...This be the section for RACISTS


:lol:

I've been kind of skimming this thread and saw your post. I just went to the "opposing viewpoints" board and saw this on that forum. Oh wow. Hey I'm all for Obama, but I can see how some people take this way out of hand.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby SunXia » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:54 am

OK, so Obama won the election and is in power!!
Were those people actually suggesting that views against Obama shouldn't be allowed?? Bet you comments like that come from people who spoke out against Dubya!!

Sounds a bit totalitarian to me...
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby James » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:27 pm

SunXia wrote:OK, so Obama won the election and is in power!!
Were those people actually suggesting that views against Obama shouldn't be allowed?? Bet you comments like that come from people who spoke out against Dubya!!

Sounds a bit totalitarian to me...

I agree and I've been hearing this a whole heck of a lot from Obama supporters, including some highly educated people. Amusing that they were the same ones which whined constantly that Bush opposed the Democrats--that sets a pretty solid double-standard. I disagree with these people that Obama has a right to do what he wishes because he was elected by the majority and I think they would too if they actually stopped to consider their own reasoning.

I don't expect things to change, though. So far the message I pick up on from Obama is, "We'll try to work together so long as you do what I want you to do." Hopefully that works out better for him, and us, than it did with Bush.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby SunXia » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:48 am

I'm all for freedom of speech and all but those that proclaim it as their right just because they're more educated and yet seek to silence those that don't agree with them aggravate me!! No wonder I stay out of politics and just seek to live my own life!! I know the recession's hard but I'd rather concentrate on solutions rather than pointing fingers at each other just because people have different views!! I'm too opinionated for politics anyway and would frog march him around the white house to get stuff done rather than preaching and giving speeches to impress people!!
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby Tan_Binrui » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:09 am

James wrote:I agree and I've been hearing this a whole heck of a lot from Obama supporters, including some highly educated people. Amusing that they were the same ones which whined constantly that Bush opposed the Democrats--that sets a pretty solid double-standard. I disagree with these people that Obama has a right to do what he wishes because he was elected by the majority and I think they would too if they actually stopped to consider their own reasoning.


I don't know, I don't see this as the same situation. Looking at the whole picture, the examples we have of legislation being worked on involved major concessions being made to the Republicans despite their minority status. Indeed, tax cuts, movement of funding, and other amendments were made to the Bail-Out that weren't wanted by most Democrats. Despite these changes, I Believe only 3 Republicans in the Senate voted for it.

The whining that I've heard from liberals is that the Republicans are whining despite the Dems (RE: really only Obama) actually trying to work with them. Add to this the rediculous demands that the minority Reps had at the time (like making the ENTIRE bill tax cuts), and it seems to me that it's more the Republicans who are stuck in their "Our way or the high way" crap than it is the Dems falling into it.

I don't expect things to change, though. So far the message I pick up on from Obama is, "We'll try to work together so long as you do what I want you to do." Hopefully that works out better for him, and us, than it did with Bush.


Again, I see it more as the Republicans being rediculous in their assumptions of power that they don't have anymore. Add to this the lack of real ideas, and you have an section of our political community that simply has no idea what to do, but it's sure not going to be THOSE ideas. Just listen to what they talked about at CPAC: Tactics on how to regain power and reputation, but nearly no messages about WHAT they represent.

Sun Xia wrote:I'm all for freedom of speech and all but those that proclaim it as their right just because they're more educated and yet seek to silence those that don't agree with them aggravate me!! No wonder I stay out of politics and just seek to live my own life!! I know the recession's hard but I'd rather concentrate on solutions rather than pointing fingers at each other just because people have different views!! I'm too opinionated for politics anyway and would frog march him around the white house to get stuff done rather than preaching and giving speeches to impress people!!


Two things.

One, I don't know off-hand of any President in the last hundred years that got as much through Congress in the first two months of being in office as Obama has. He's certainly not lacking in expediency or accomplishment.

Second, what you claim is not, at all, what anyone is saying. Nobody thinks they have a right to silence those who disagree simply because they aren't educated. Well, besides Rush Limbaugh. Plus, pointing fingers is what politics is all about. Actually answering questions and honestly working toward fixing them is the realm of of Philosophy, far outside Legislation's jurisdiction.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:23 am

I agree with the assessment of some of the posters on the Obama Forum, but I'm starting to resent the broad brush being used to paint Obama and his supporters here. Obama has not been arguing that Republican viewpoints should be muzzled, most of his supporters in my personal acquaintance have not been arguing that way, and I certainly don't think they should, unless said viewpoints contain libel, slander or defamation. As to solutions to the economic crisis, I am convinced that there are none that are easy or painless, and I personally think the insistence from some Republican circles that we should be able to have our cake and eat it too (that is, cut domestic spending, cut taxes on the wealthy and pray that the economy somehow gets better) is not productive.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby James » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:35 pm

Tan_Binrui, when measures are being passed with such extensive opposition from the Republicans, what is the point of going into the finer details? They're being strongarmed and that's all there is to it. This is the problem I was worried about in having a single party in control of the entire process. You're arguing a technicality that doesn't change the basic facts.

Not that I like either party...

WeiWenDi wrote:I agree with the assessment of some of the posters on the Obama Forum, but I'm starting to resent the broad brush being used to paint Obama and his supporters here. Obama has not been arguing that Republican viewpoints should be muzzled, most of his supporters in my personal acquaintance have not been arguing that way, and I certainly don't think they should, unless said viewpoints contain libel, slander or defamation. As to solutions to the economic crisis, I am convinced that there are none that are easy or painless, and I personally think the insistence from some Republican circles that we should be able to have our cake and eat it too (that is, cut domestic spending, cut taxes on the wealthy and pray that the economy somehow gets better) is not productive.

I'm not sure anybody is taking the members of that board seriously. I think most anyone can see quite clearly that the average membership of that board is quite completely irrational, if not downright screwed up in the head. But on the other hand there are some strong percentages in the Obama camp which do somehow believe, without justification, that he is going to be able to remake America into something completely new—and that's pretty dangerous.

I don't think Obama has come up with good solutions for our Economy.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby Tan_Binrui » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:58 pm

James wrote:Tan_Binrui, when measures are being passed with such extensive opposition from the Republicans, what is the point of going into the finer details? They're being strongarmed and that's all there is to it. This is the problem I was worried about in having a single party in control of the entire process. You're arguing a technicality that doesn't change the basic facts.


Strongarmed? How so? I'd like to know what you mean by that, because my definition of that slang doesn't apply to this situation.

Not that I like either party...


Me neither. They've both done things I don't agree with. I simply agree with the foundation of the Democrats more than the Republicans.

I don't think Obama has come up with good solutions for our Economy.


It's something. We don't have a lot of options, right now, and stalling too long to find what would work now would cause further problems in the future that we won't have solutions for. The longer we wait, the more problems we'll have to fix.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby Jordan » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:51 am

What made me laugh most were the names of those members. RevShapton and KarlMarxFan123. It's so playing into stereotypes that I almost believe that the whole board is a satirical farce.

Anyways, apparently health care reform has become the issue being talked about a lot right now. I'm not sure what will happen, but I think more Americans are becoming opposed to it. The Clintons couldn't get the issue settled and I don't think Obama will either actually.
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