Barack Obama

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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby James » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:15 am

WeiWenDi wrote:The high school guidance counsellors at W---- High School, according to my colleague, often demand that black and Hispanic students write five-page essays before they will give out this application code, whereas they will give it to white students with the same GPA / class rank / SAT score without asking for such.

I'm not responding to your first reply at this point because I simply don't have the time to honor an in-depth discussion at this very moment, but I did want to point out that this particular scenario almost certainly doesn't represent the education system of our nation as a whole. In fact, I can think of dozens of cases where 'minorities' are given easier access exams, rather than being forced to cross extra hurdles (with government knowledge and support). Additionally, forcing 'minorities' of any sort to submit to dedicated requirements is ground for a nasty lawsuit—one which will be lost, and lost quickly.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:32 am

James wrote:I'm not responding to your first reply at this point because I simply don't have the time to honor an in-depth discussion at this very moment, but I did want to point out that this particular scenario almost certainly doesn't represent the education system of our nation as a whole. In fact, I can think of dozens of cases where 'minorities' are given easier access exams, rather than being forced to cross extra hurdles (with government knowledge and support). Additionally, forcing 'minorities' of any sort to submit to dedicated requirements is ground for a nasty lawsuit—one which will be lost, and lost quickly.


Oh, no question about that. Like I said, this problem isn't systemic, and TMK there's nothing enforcing it, no 'dedicated requirements' besides the expectations and prejudices of a couple of bad-egg counsellors. But when you have this kind of low-grade racism wherein expectations of students are not fully communicated to them, for example, and wherein high-school students are not aware of their full legal rights (and, given their socio-economic status, their parents are not likely to be either, if both or either are around), one can see how this kind of behaviour could be allowed to continue (and actually, how nasty and drawn-out the potential lawsuit would be likely to get, complete with character attacks and 'he-said-she-said').
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby James » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:37 pm

Sure, but the key point I'm trying to make is that things of this nature will probably always be a part of our society, and we're to a point now where the African Americans aren't any particular target. There is racism floating around against everyone, including plenty against white people. To home in on a certain type of racism and blow it out of proportion relative to the other types only serves to perpetuate additional racism from those who are led to believe they are being oppressed, and also serves to perpetuate exactly the sort of behavior that keeps a community in the gutter. What more can we expect from leaders who lead through sole virtue of negative principle?

I find it utterly amazing that people still believe the African American culture is being held down.

Heaven forbid they should face adversity like the rest of us...
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:12 am

A couple of things:

James wrote:To home in on a certain type of racism and blow it out of proportion relative to the other types only serves to perpetuate additional racism from those who are led to believe they are being oppressed, and also serves to perpetuate exactly the sort of behavior that keeps a community in the gutter.


How exactly is giving a simple, local example of residual prejudice in society and then saying it is a problem needing fixing blowing it out of proportion? I think it would have been blowing it out of proportion to say it was indicative of something systemic, but I emphatically disavowed that this example was anything resembling systemic. (The solution is also likely to be something simple - to even the playing field, my colleague simply asked all of her students to do the essay just in case their counsellor asked for one, and then helped them with it since she considered it busywork.) That said, I do think there are still groups in the United States that need to be watched very closely for misbehaviour (the KKK, the CCC's and the LoS come to mind) to ensure that they do not actively disenfranchise or terrorise people on the basis of race.

James wrote:There is racism floating around against everyone, including plenty against white people.


Explain? I don't remember ever getting turned down for any schools, scholarships, job, housing or banking offers because I was white. I don't remember ever having to jump through any additional administrative hoops to vote or apply for a credit card. I don't think I've ever been called a 'yid' in public (except by my friends, in a teasing way). How does this racism against white people manifest itself?

James wrote:I find it utterly amazing that people still believe the African American culture is being held down.

Heaven forbid they should face adversity like the rest of us...


I actually think a good part of it is that many of them embrace a cynical and nihilistic view of the dominant culture (and of their own), and in so doing hold themselves back in various ways.

The last part I'm not sure is warranted, though. Black people actually do face adversity - many of the students with whom I work (black, white, Hispanic and Portuguese) have to deal with home and economic situations I certainly never had to. I'm just saying they shouldn't have to face any more adversity than 'the rest of us' solely on account of their skin colour, which ought to be perfectly reasonable.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby Antiochus » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:08 pm

Racism today is a particular thing. It is no longer institutionalized, which is why some people fail to see it, but it is still well rooted within the people inside the institutions.

As a result, there were attempt to outfight this with measures such as affirmative action, but in the end, there is still a very prevalent racism that is being directed at African-Americans and other visible minorities.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby James » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:26 pm

Holy crap! I would never want to admin this forum:

http://theobamaforum.com/

And I feel really bad for Obama knowing he's got 'supporters' like some of these people...
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:12 pm

Whoo... yeah, some of those guys are fanatics.

Now, there's no love lost between me and the likes of Ludwig von Mises and Lew Rockwell, but seriously! Do some of these guys realise how paranoid they sound? They're practically mirrors of YAF, SAF and Campus Watch (albeit on the opposite side of the political spectrum), and I thought the entire point of the Obama administration was to encourage the big tent, not tear it down... let's just say I wouldn't want to go there and voice my thoughts about abortion or the USA PATRIOT Act, for example.

Ehh. Fanatics are no fun, no matter their stripes.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby Jake » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:38 pm

James wrote:Holy crap! I would never want to admin this forum:

http://theobamaforum.com/

And I feel really bad for Obama knowing he's got 'supporters' like some of these people...

Hahah, the first thing that I saw in the forum was a topic in the introduction section named "I voted 4 times. Where's my Kools, yo". The guy says he lives in the streets to make his living. Quite.. oh well.

It's not anymore such a big thing in Finland that Obama is the president, the goverment has good relations with him (I think so), an so on. Racism is quite normal thing in here, so there are many people who insult him for his skin color. I'm not thought, and I don't know much about is he a good or bad president.
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby Patricoo » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:00 pm

Jake wrote:
James wrote:Holy crap! I would never want to admin this forum:

http://theobamaforum.com/

And I feel really bad for Obama knowing he's got 'supporters' like some of these people...

Hahah, the first thing that I saw in the forum was a topic in the introduction section named "I voted 4 times. Where's my Kools, yo". The guy says he lives in the streets to make his living. Quite.. oh well.

It's not anymore such a big thing in Finland that Obama is the president, the goverment has good relations with him (I think so), an so on. Racism is quite normal thing in here, so there are many people who insult him for his skin color. I'm not thought, and I don't know much about is he a good or bad president.


He's only been around for two months, and his administration has done little more then what could be described as the political equivalent of a father yelling at his kids to "knock if off back there."
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Re: Barack Obama

Unread postby Shah Muhammad III » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:26 pm

the theobamaforum is deeply offensive to my iq, especially the Obama youth brigade, hell they even talk about driving out white people or using them in wars against Britain and Canada, and they tell people to be respectful, i even got banned trying to cook with gasoline and start an topic that would enrage the forum, now if it was pro-Obama it wouldn't have been deleted, but it is the Obama forum so what do you expect
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