UK Politics

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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:00 pm

The attempted Watson coup is so idiotic. One of the few things that has seemed to cause Johnson some damage is purging his ranks. So what does Corbyn do? Surrender the moral high ground. Idiot. he is the least competent leader of the opposition in modern British history.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:11 pm

Sun Fin wrote:The attempted Watson coup is so idiotic. One of the few things that has seemed to cause Johnson some damage is purging his ranks. So what does Corbyn do? Surrender the moral high ground. Idiot. he is the least competent leader of the opposition in modern British history.


Labour have shot themselves in the foot so badly with events that Atlee could come alive to name Corbyn as the only true successor, Cameron defect to Labour and it would still be a bad conference.

One wonders if Corbyn's team are doing things that bad for Corbyn as they are trying to secure their grip for after election for post-Corbyn. It has been noticeable that even Corbyn's loyal figures have been going openly... easing themselves away from him on things like Brexit and other things.

Plenty of Labour polices but lots and lots of blows for Corbyn and unforced chaos, Brexit
-Papers on Labour, they are not "wow what a brilliant day", Sunday Times accuses Boris of failing to declare conflicts of interests when Mayor

-Coup against Watson aborted, Corbyn seems to have realized this would be more a headache then worth as Labour MP's as a group protested to NEC, alos seems trade unions and some Corbyn loyalists went "what the heck?" so Corbyn suggested NEC review system with maybe two deputies including a woman (which has long been a route Corbyn's team has considered to dilute Watson's power but shelved last time as they feared they might lose) and is now saying Watson is wonderful, highlighting work in media and on online gambling, he knew nothing of any of this at all.

Watson calls it a bad start to conference and calls for unity, fight against Boris has been undermined already, hangs out Lansmann to dry by suggesting it was simply Lansmnan and Momentum didn't want the coup. Corbyn's team like McCluskey (who denies he was involved) says Corbyn heroically stopped the coup by calming people down against Watson's disloyalty, Watson has instead praised chair of the NEC Wendy Nichols. Long-Bailey and Abbott voted for coup, Butler accuses Watson of not being a shadow cabinet for months

-Corbyn's policy chief Andrew Fischer to resign, leaked resignation message says Corbyn won't win an election, is a class war (seen as shot at likes of Milne) and describes Corbyn's team as "lack of professionalism, competence and human decency" and a "blizzard of lies". He has now formally says he will leave at end of year subject to election for family reasons. Never popular with Labour given his history against Labour but was an effective policy chief as witnessed by manifesto and has been planning the policy plans for this conference for months, this is not just a blow with election losing that policy chief wants out but that a Corbyn above Labour loyalist is resigning due to the team around Corbyn is damaging. Corbyn says the blizzard of lies stuff is just normal workplace dispute

-Labour deny Corbyn and co are preparing succession, Corbyn says he wants to be PM and would serve a full term as PM at least, but plenty suspecting that was reason for coup since if Corbyn goes Watson automatically becomes leader and for things like Fischer going. The first three stories mean Labour has lost this conference week, Boris and co will run with these stories, the drip drip drip of the return of the rumours that Corbyn might not run for election but this time that his own supporters are easing away from him is going to be damaging. The Watson move seems to have sparked off a lot things

-Sir Stramer backs referendum and Remain, welcomes the failure to remove Watson, Ashworth is a Remainer, Drakeford commits Welsh Labour to Remain, Richard Leonard says party should be more overtly Remain. Watson says they are a Remain party. Trickett slams betrayal of Brexiteer communities as backwards and says one senior Labour female figure told him ‘Well, no wonder they’re all coming down south, the young people, because you can’t be gay up north.

-Labour to scrap Ofsted (teahcers don't seem to like the inspectors) and bring in a new body with councils to do regular checks (councils marking their own schools homework?) and only then call in the inspectors if the council has concerns, end NHS prescription charges in England (they calculate will cost £745 million and will be costed at manifesto time), flexible working for those on menopause and training of managers at firms into impact of menopause. NEC now has veto on caretaker leader which is seen as left-leaning NEC ensuring they can block the elected deputy leader called Tom Watson. Abolish small jail sentences, would halt hospital closures but only till review

-Long-Bailey suggests government take equity stake in Thomas Cook (I'm not sure it is a viable business)

-Drakeford warns relations between the four nations need reform if they are to survive

-Villiers welcomes report on how to reinvigorate national park system

-Clive Lewis says left took over Labour to restore party democracy but recent actions are doing the exact opposite

-Corbyn says we could be better off with right deal Brexit then Remaining and party should be bear in mind the 17 million Brexiteers, will keep trying to use trains rather then planes were possible as PM, will try to prevent second porogue. Would respect conference vote if it calls for backing Remain

-Rayner says Labour committed to integrating private schools into public sector, Abbott says Tory policies have lead to rising crime and Corbyn will lead a great reforming government

-Attempts to restore clause 4 in Labour fails while morning votes pulled after chaos


====

-Farage says a delay will force Boris to adopt Farage's clean Brexit policy, Brexit party will target all Labour seats in Wales, Boris current plans would lead to years and years of trouble as won't be real Brexit

-Dame Beckett backs Corbyn strategy on Brexit, Hoey (sun) Labour must back Brexit or lose voters, McCluskey calls for those who don't agree with Corbyn's Brexit policy to resign from shadow cabinet, Mayor Khan wants Labour to fight for Remain

-Blair condemns attempt to remove Watson (who had been a leading figure in overthrowing Blair) as does Ed Miliband who says abolishing deputy leader post without debate is undemocratic

-Lord Falconer says Labour removal of Labour students was illegal

-Richard Leonard can't see case for second Scottish referendum in immediate future

====

-Will Hutton with a nostalgic bemoaning of our political leaders

-Rawnsley feelsattempt to overthrow Watson is damning of Corbyn's faction mindset
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:05 pm

Supreme court decides tomorrow at 10:30 am

McDonnell speech, Corbyn wins key vote, Labour not united, Brexit
McDonnell's speech: Flat. Jokes didn't work, delivery was off, took a fair bit of time of thanks before he moved onto Brexit, hard to tell how he went down in audience due to sound quality but did get a lot of stoppages for applause (which didn't help the flow) and lots of applause at end. Urged Labour figures to play nice and set an example on how to discuss Brexit so they can unite themselves and then unite the country, argued Lib Dem policy would cost faith in democracy, attacked Boris for undermining institutions that uphold the law (we truly live in weird times).

On policy, plenty of it but it may not have been helped by most of these were known yesterday so lacked surprises like free social care (or older ones lack ban zero hour contracts) so would rely on building a theme, the only ones that felt new was the section on getting working hours down to 32 a working week within decade including business having to negotiate max with trade unions and restoring EU workers time directive (working rights had a bit of punch able to show policy to set out for the workers and fundamental change). There is one there peeking out about how Labour believes government needs to ensure a good life for citizens and that can be built on to argue that is what state is for with fresher lines and flesh it out but a lot of speech felt like what one would expect from Labour, solidarity, love the unions, public spending, Tories suck, the comfort food as it were.

Green issues was the one time the jokes worked and following on from Lib Dems (Greens can feel entitled to be a tad "told you so"), it is becoming a theme of the conferences. McDonnell raised his delivery somewhat (before a tired ending about the fight to change), not sure any of the policy was new and may have held himself hostage to fortune with terms like spending whatever is needed but he also talked about abroad which was interesting. I do feel using the term colonial past is going to ensure the wider part isn't listened to as is using term international socialism when more careful writing could have really built the case for helping the south of the planet due to past mistakes, talked of free or cheap green technologies to help them.

Most people won't have heard of things like free social care, end of prescriptions but will it hear first in this speech, it will catch attention along with smaller working weeks, zero hour contract ban and the like. A lot of it is preaching to the converted and doesn't tackle "but if I vote for Labour, I fear..." but it makes an offer that I well imagine will appeal about transforming lives. I suppose paying for it questions will be asked and how is clear, be interesting to see how public respond but I do imagine for now, a lot of the promises will surely appeal.

====

-Papers on divided Labour and awful poll ratings, following on from Boris conflict of interest and Thomas Cook bankruptcy

-Corbyn writes to NEC proposing deal within three months of taking power and referendum in six (seems like extremely tight timetable) with decision on which side to pick at future conference between those two moments, Thornberry say they can pick a side now. Confusion as to if Labour NEC has agreed to it or not and unhappiness that Brexit policy debate has been done in such a manner that union votes could be key (though Unison broke ranks against Corbyn on this but Momentum backed Corbyn). Corbyn won, "Remain now" voted down, mood on the floor seemed to be get behind Corbyn which will be a huge boost to him and credit to his tacticians for making this an issue of confidence while Sir Stramer kept in line this time with final speech.

-Abbott says she won't comment on Fisher resignation as hasn't actually read what he said but urges him to reconsider resignation, on Watson she says media always run around like headline chickens declaring Labour are having splits (I don't recall other conferences were leader tried to remove the deputy though) and Watson seems relaxed and happy, need to start talking about climate justice with it's impact on poorer parts of globe. Not a fan of people being able to comment online and be anonymous, Cameron is to blame for Brexit

-Labour to reverse all cuts to legal aid in first 100 days, £50,000 to 1,500 ex-servicemen who were used for nuclear testing, a national network of charging points for electric vehicles at a cost of £3.6bn. Would apologise for the first Amritsar massacre, and hold an inquiry into Britain’s role in the second, inquiry into complicity with rendition and torture, allow Chagas Islanders to return home, compensate black African and Caribbean veterans who failed to get the same demob as white soldiers

-Corbyn complains media aren't focusing enough about Boris not declaring potential conflicts of interest story, accuses Marr of closing ranks behind Tories by not asking Raab about it (Marr gentleman in response "Pushback? Well, I was genuinely pleased that, on what cannot have been an easy morning for him, JC turned up for a live interview. And of course I always welcome helpful advice on how to do my job"). Corbyn later has row with media scrum for something he called completely unacceptable but not entirely clear what for

-Labour members vote for abolishing of private schools (formal Momentum position but not entirely clear Labour cabinet are willing to quite go that far and clear this is going to be a major major major legal headache), block any new free schools and bring academies back under local control, all necessary resources to NHS and reverse outsourcing and privatization, social care should be free ala NHS. Woman's conference votes to end the detention of asylum seeking women, put a 28-day limit on all immigration detention and end charges for migrant and refugee women needing ante-natal and maternity care

-Tom Watson getting good receptions in Labour conference including an ovation at Progress. Watson has joked he will get in a joke about Lansmann every fringe event he goes to now "The first thing I will say is that if you had taken a bet on whether I’d be deputy leader speaking at this event on Friday night, you’d have made a lot of money, and I really hope some of you did, and the person you’ve got to thank if you did is Jon Lansman.”

-Drakeford wants Welsh Labour to have final says on Welsh MP's rather then UK Labour, welcomes review into deputy leader as Welsh Labour stopped it being both men already

-On poltics live when Camilla Tominany raised that surveys show people are actually happy whereas Labour act as if people are outraged about their lives, didn't feel any of the Labour guests really addressed that other then "but universal credit" and Piddock's more credible "but looks at amount of poverty" (though doesn't address that despite this, rise in happiness), that could be an issue.

-Jewish Labour Movement unhappy at lack of consultation on new disciplinary measures and that it is to debated on the Sabbath

-I feel "don't mistake democracy for division" like taken up by McDonnell and others would have worked better if not for the Watson and Fisher stories.

-Thronberry warns strong man politics is a threat to the world order, age of impunity for likes of Trump and Saudi's needs to end

=====

-Juncker warns no deal means controls on Irish border will have to happen, Scottish government wants £52 million to deal with no deal Brexit as minimum required. SNP says Labour votes show they are stuck on the fence, Lib Dems say it shows Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart

-Shapps urged trapped public to be patient with staff during the evacuation from Thomas Cook collapse, Leadsom wants investigation into collapse fast-tracked

-McGovern Boris needs to be held to account

-Andy Abrahams the Labour mayor of Mansfield warns some in northern Brexit towns won't vote for Labour due to Brexit, Lansmann says NEC didn't debate or discuss with anyone the Corbyn Brexit stance (Watson tweets irony is not dead), Richard Leonard calls for clarity. Sir Khan doesn't tink Labour conference vote reflects Labour members views

====

-Katy Hayward DUP still holds key on Brexit

-Zoe Williams chaotic Labour

-Eloise Harris conference a test of Labour party democracy

-Tom Rayner private school policy is a key moment

-John Haris on need for unity and trusted news
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:51 am

-11 out of 11 of the Supreme Court judges says it is within court mandate to rule on this (major plank of government argument thrashed soundly there)

-As a general rule preventing Parliament carrying out role of holding executive is unlawful

-This length was unusual, had extreme impact on parliament and thus Boris advice to Queen to prorogue is unlawful

-It is up to Speaker Bercow to decide what to do as prorogation is ruled null and void (an attempt to stop Boris trying a repeat I suspect)

-Doesn't seem to have declared if Boris lied which is about the one saving grace Boris has got from this
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:23 am

Parliament recalled for tomorrow, Corbyn speech moved to this afternoon with MP's ordered to get down to Westminster

Not sure who specifically the Mail are going to attack as enemies of the people for this
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:11 pm

I'm not sure who I feel about this. I'm somewhat worried that this could lead towards a swing to the US system? Do you think it opens the door to ongoing appeals to the Supreme court when the opposition disagree with what the government have done?
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:23 pm

Sun Fin wrote:I'm not sure who I feel about this. I'm somewhat worried that this could lead towards a swing to the US system? Do you think it opens the door to ongoing appeals to the Supreme court when the opposition disagree with what the government have done?


There is a risk yes whenever something unprecedented happens that it becomes the new normal. We do already have lawsuits on political issues and judicial reviews like HS2, universal credit and the like. So far our judges aren't political appointees and are aware of the need not to be, they value their international reputation as far as I can tell and may be rather annoyed if this becomes the new normal.

That even the judges who legal experts thought might be against such judiciary getting involved actually backed such strongly worded statement and putting power into Bercow's hands (a slap on the wrist was expected, this was far more) suggests Boris tactics of "yeah if say I did wrong, I'll just prorogue again" went down badly.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:02 pm

Corbyn's speech, Labour conference
-Corbyn speech: I think all have to acknowledge before hand that this is not usual, usually last day briefings of things to focus on and last minute changes but having to come out early, some policies are being pulled for future because frankly Corby would have to slag off the Queen for any attention so better to save it for a later day, having to major rewrites. Audience seemed to be very active, constant applause by them (though I got the impression some got bored near the end)

Corbyn gave one of his best speech deliveries I have seen from him, forceful, passionate, jokes not great but decent enough and when speech was good, he delivered it well and set an optimistic tone. The early stuff was really good, maybe speech writers if they had another few hours might have trimmed it a little or punches a little more refined but he laid into Boris with some good lines, pressing his refusal to obey the law and how that was an example of his privilege and contempt, of Boris being inept and of thinking he is above the law. On Brexit, Corbyn played his hand skilfully as the reasonable uniter across the middle rather then the extreme of both sides though no dealers kind of sounded like the usual attacks one expects of Labour against Tories, skilfully making Labour's policy sound simple and democratic (while ignoring "I might vote against my deal" issue) in a way that for the moment sounded like it could sell. Where I would provide a note of caution is Boris the privileged and so on is I have heard those attacks against Trump, against Farage, against Boris, it may show him as the elite with elite backers but that never seems to work, they need to find other ways to tackle the populist angle.

Then it felt jumpy, going from bit to bit, very heavy policy but a lot of it was old or ones already announced which meant some new policies could skip notice. Theme vaguely on your side, making life better, generic attacks on nasty Tory party. In normal circumstances I would slam the lack of seguing, failure to properly build narrative and going so policy heavy without purpose (I like policy heavy speeches but not one that felt like "list every policy I have ever mentioned ever as a list") but circumstances are very different so filler is understandable, did a segment on green economy. Near end got in a shot at the media, didn't acknowledge any Labour problems (one segment on Tories divisiveness and use of hate language did make me feel "couldn't you say that about Labour". A different kind of PM might not be a bad idea for trying to sell Corbyn to public and contrast with Boris but needs to be fleshed out

New policies: Against intervention in Saudi-Iran issue (not exactly a surprise), went big on getting medical drug prices down including a national drugs company and no public research money unless drugs are affordable or generic alternatives provided

=====

-Conference chair Wendy Nichols not having a good time as it made a meal out of Brexit vote with split on panel over who won on the remain option vote (though from what I have heard, it does seem like Remainers did lose) and then stumbled on explanation, add the chaos in votes on first day....

-Rumours planned walkout for Watson speech but sadly won't get to see if that will come true as he pulled it so Corbyn could take the slot

-Labour would take equity stakes in car producers in return for a £3bn capital investment in new electric models and machinery, a a 51% stake in a new public-private venture which would build 37 new offshore wind farms with profits going back into the wider energy network+ a £1 billion each year to "People's Power Fund" for recreational and leisure facilities in struggling coastal communities.

-Long-Bailey says state should not be afraid to intervene to ensure automotive industry success given challenges they face, wishes to avoid mistakes of North Sea Oil

-Shadow Treasury minister Annaliese Dodds would back Remain due to economic impact of Brexit, Sir Stramer says he expects Labour will end up Remain anyway

-Labour MP's ordered to go to Westminster tomorrow

-Ashworth says he wouldn't have supported Labour's private education stances as a student but not so sure it should be priority

-I feel sorry for several at conference who have business interests there or whom this is their big event of the year who will find their last day very much a damp squib with every major figure heading to Westminster


=====

Thomas Cook, Boris, recall, Attorney General in trouble
-Papers on Thomas Cook bosses and the odd one on Labour Brexit vote or Boris

-Boris denies allegations of impropriety in regards alleged conflicts of interest, high probability that blame for attack on Saudi oil is Iran (they deny and point to UK selling weapons to Saudi's) then issues joint letter with France and Germany accusing Iran, wants a system that prevents directors getting loads of money and government having to fly people home. Business Committee launches inquiry into Thomas Cook collapse

-Wales Brexit Minister Jeremy Miles says they will not back any Labour Brexit deal

-McDonnell says Thomas Cook bosses have a moral obligation to return their bonuses, Leadsom says a bailout would have wasted taxpayers money and wants to found out Thomas Cook tottered on so long without it being saved while more needs to be done to align director pay with performance

-National Crime Agency has found no evidence of criminality with Aaron Banks and Leave.EU. Banks and co will wish this had been any day but this one I suspect as will get no attention

-Bercow says recall was matter of urgency having consulted with leaders while hints to MP's he will allow emergency debate motions, Corbyn calls for Boris to consider his position, opposition parties call for Boris to go but Corbyn's measured language the more effective, Labour not quite agreeing to call no confidence (they may be wise to see how Tory and former Tory MP's feel as need enough onside and is risk it costs time to prevent no deal). Plaid trying to use Boris past attempts to impeach Blair to get Boris impeached but not sure that will impress anymore then it did last time.

Brexiteers like Farage are demanding Cummings go for messing up (this may be a damaging but useful scapegoat for Boris since it avoids him having to take responsibility). Verhofstadt "At least one big relief in the Brexit saga: the rule of law in the UK is alive & kicking. Parliaments should never be silenced in a real democracy. I never want to hear Boris Johnson or any other Brexiteer say again that the European Union is undemocratic. Further, the Supreme Court has made it clear that its reasons are connected to the Parliamentary disputes over, and timetable for, leaving the European Union. We think this is a further serious mistake. We will study the judgement carefully to consider how we can best respond in these unique circumstances. As always the government will respect the law and comply with the courts.”

Tory MP's told to be quiet by whips while number 10, with Boris at UN, took time to work out response. Boris says he strongly disagrees with court but will follow it and they have not made his Brexit task any easier, still inclined for some sort of prorogue so he can have Queen speech. Number 10 goes rather further “We think the Supreme Court is wrong and has made a serious mistake in extending its reach to these political matters."

-Trump intervenes to protect Boris from a US reporter "will you resign" question and says Boris won't resign

-Tories to try to ensure recess for Tory conference with Cleverly saying it will go ahead, Boris taking early flight back (this evening rather then tomorrow morning)

-Cox legal advice has been leaked, says proroguing was legal and opponents of the idea were just playing political games, this will be damaging for his legal reputation having misread that and is having to say he won't resign. Labour are calling for full advice to be published and having got it wrong, Cox should go

-Apparently 1922 Committee at some point inserted a rule that means Boris can't face Tory leadership vote for a year

-Vadaker says talks with Boris went well and more detail on Brexit

=====

-Hunt says Boris should seek alliances in UN against Iran's political hostage taking

-Professor Curtice can't see how Labour's new Brexit plan will win over Remainers or Leavers, Corbyn has been centrist on an issue when voters are going for extremes, risks looking like a ditherer and lacking leadership.

-Bridgen calls the court is a disgrace, Bridgen needs to grow up. Sir Grieve doesn't think Boris can try to prorogue now, Brexit Party's Richard Tice says court was clear and government must act quickly (he suggests Boris resign) but thinks Oct31st deadline is dead. Gauke says Cummings position is untenable and Boris should apologize and change approach but is not calling for Boris to go. Beeb says government's law officers need to resign after number 10 attacks the court

-Gapes tried to correct Abbott's grammar and got it wrong

=====

-Sean Coughlin questions political wisdom of trying to abolish private schools

-Peston McDonnell's plans will be difficult for Tories

-Toynbee mixed views on Labour conference

-Kuessenberg on Labour's Brexit vote

-Anne McElvoy state schools should be Labour priority

-Robin Aitken spent time at UKIP conference and doesn't rule out a comeback
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:43 am

I'm gonna chime in here and say I find it completely fascinating that the High Court ruled 11-0, and that while yeah it's a possibility that the UK starts changing to a probendalist style of government, i think its highly unlikely.

My professors told me probendalism is used to describe rule by judges or court rulings rather than strictly legislation. A good example in America is the idea of privacy getting thrown into the 4th Amendment to the Constitution, that eventhough it has become accepted practice that there are privacy rights to everyday persons, a blunt narrow argument of the Constitution would be that Privacy doesn't explicitly exist in the Constitution. Of course there are multiple reasons and arguments it does, but that it had to be implied/added into the meaning of the 4th and other amendments, shows a disregard for some kind of legislative action to simply add it by amendment.

I said that we get rule by judges from what Cromwell did during the Protectorate, that his states council of 21 or so, which even he eventually started ignoring, had a number of High Court judges . I'd appreciate some correction on this from Brits here, though thats about the only example i know of of Judges directly equaling legislators in a Parlimentary democracy.


The British courts in general are definitely much more A-Political than America.

Boris did it too obviously and too bluntly is all, and British history is full of problems around Proroguing Parliament.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:55 pm

Thanks for giving a legal based view on the judges. Not sure on the Cromwell question

Brexit, testy commons, Labour, Attorney General
-Papers on Boris humiliation and the strong court attack while Brexiteer papers with varying degrees of subtly portray as people vs judges+the elite. Financial Times for first ever calls for a PM to resign

-Despite union objects, Labour agree to aiming for carbon zero by 2030 and a vague green new deal, Leadsom seizes on union comments to say Labour plans are unworkable and would backfire which shows Labour aren't serious about actually tackling it

-Boris spoke to Queen yesterday then gave full confidence to Cummings and Cox but distances himself from number 10's comments on judge, compares the eternity of Brexit process to Prometheus torture, invites Hassan Rouhani to London.

-Someone in cabinet has leaked that Rees-Mogg accused judges of constitutional coup, Buckland "We must all remember that our world-class judiciary always acts free from political motivation or influence and that the rule of law is the basis of our democracy, for all seasons. Personal attacks on judges from any quarter are completely unacceptable.", DUP says court ruling must be respected. Gove (unusually testy by all accounts in interview) says he accepts the decision and that it was made by neutral judges but government didn't do anything wrong while usual usual non-denial terms about Rees-Mogg allegations, humiliation is hyperbole, compares Boris to Man City manager

-London Assembly GLA (Greater London Assembly) Oversight Committee has given Boris 14 days to send details of relations with a certain business figure

-Cox in initially good humour at dispatch box but then got testy, won't resign as no lawyer would do so every time they lost a case, made arguments in good faith, considering if in public interest to publish more about legal advice he gave on this cases. Supreme Court made new law which it is entitled to do, would have been unwilling to support proroguing till end of October, suggests Rees-Mogg got carried away rather then meant such an attack, parliament is dead and has no moral right to sit so should call an election but opposition is too cowardly, will comply with Benn act. In a careful musing says Brexit may require changes to constitutional framework including parliament having oversight of appointment of judges but is reluctant to go down that route. Dr Lee should be on his knees begging for forgiveness of his electorate, will seek an early election

-McDonnell says Labour would give 16 years old vote on Brexit referendum, Vadaker and Tusk says backstop arrangements must be in front of EU by end of week and warn treaty status makes last minute changes with withdrawal agreement not possible, N.Ireland police have contingency plans to stop leave for a spell after Brexit. Gove says there has been significant movement on Brexit deal and if no deal with no Stormont then N.Ireland civil service will have to be granted new powers, Lord Callaghan refuses to rule out Boris sending letter of extension and a letter of "here is why you should refuse"

-Tad unfortunate Boris motorcade went wrong way down a one-way street

-Shapps says Thomas Cook brought it's own downfall, any bailout would have thrown good money after bad, but insolvency laws might be changed so a bankrupt airplane planes can keep flying (government review in July included that so questions are why that didn't happen)

-Corbyn says Boris should apologize to Queen and public, priority is stopping no deal and then an election, won't vote for recess for Tory conference (Abbott says that is yet to be decided as is an issue of fair play, I'm with her on this), doesn't get fair media coverage outside of elections (media figures shoot back he avoids any media duty)

-Blackford says he is not opposed to Corbyn as a caretaker PM

-Parliament records will remove reference to prorogue and call it adjourned

-Labour conference calls for full voting rights to all UK residents including migrants, closure of all immigration detention centres, ending “no recourse to public funds” policies, extend free movement rights, no immigration cap or targets. I suspect Labour will soften this one a lot (or pretty much tear it up) through various committees and processes before manifesto

-Each Commons session seems to have overrun today

-Labour offered a "nothing contentious for conference days" but Tories pushing for recess

-Raab says no plans to send troops to Saudi Arabia

====

-McCluskey accuses Sky News of lying for reporting Lansmann, who tweeted he was upset, was upset and that Beth Rigby should be ashamed of herself for claiming Lansmann said it.

-Farage says Boris as a matter of honour should offer resignation but feels Supreme Curt gave political rather then legal call, Baker calls it an earthquake moment and rotten parliament needs to go to election, Ken Clarke says it restores us to a more sensible constitutional position. Sir Clifton Brown and Lord Heltine unite to condemn Rees-Mogg's language

-Sir Charles Walker says Corbyn's record on anti-Semitism means MP's won't put Corbyn in power ever, gently suggests Cox went over the top with his performance when calm needed, tired of Brexit, wants party conferences down to one every four years

-Kate Hoey calls on those who attacked Banks and Leave.EU over allegations that they now been cleared of to apologize

-Vaziey won't vote for conference break

-Gauke calls for Cummings to be axed

=====

-D'Arcy how MP's might act

-Holly Baxter proroguing has little attention in US

-Beth Rigby Boris won't change tactics

-Hinsliff Boris has questions to answer

-Balls Tories may be in pain but humiliation may help win votes
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