UK Politics

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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby SunXia » Mon May 27, 2019 6:37 pm

I am so over the moon for Naomi Long. The Alliance Party have been doing really well over here. Republicans call her Unionist and Unionists call her Nationalist. That's Pro-UK or Pro-UI respectively for anyone familiar with Ireland.

In 2010 Long toppled the Leader of the DUP in what was considered a Loyalist heartland in East Belfast. Unionists joined into pacts to get rid of her and they got her out of West Minster but she has not gone away and is still promoting NI regardless of Unionism or Nationalism.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue May 28, 2019 6:07 pm

Wasn't it by a surprisingly high margin as well? Been noted gone from two Brexit to two Remain MEP's

Scottish Labour in trouble, plans for TV debates, anti-Semitism, Alistair Campbell expelled by Labour and moe
-Scottish Labour (who suffered worst election results since 1910) leader Richard Leonard, a man close to Corbyn who has kept party line, now says he backs Referendum and would campaign for Remain, acknowledging the constitutional questions of Scotland have eroded trust in Scottish Labour. Leonard is being leaked against a lot by those who warned him to take firmer stance on Brexit and being accused of allowing Scottish Labour to be a branch office for Corbyn, Leonard is under heavy pressure. Corbynite and the man in charge of their MEP camapign Neil Findlay has resigned and will leave Hollyrood at next election, as I understand had gorwn detached from front-line politics and opposes second referendum passionately

-Sir Cable says Remain parties could have beaten Farage if they had agreed an electoral pact, Abbott says Labour is moving to second referendum and wouldn't be betraying people to consult them and isn't convinced Remain would win, Hunt says he is willing to invite DUP, someone from Scotland+Wales (now being clarified as Tories from there) and ERG into talks which would help convince EU any agreed deal has more chance in Comons but warns hardline tone will see EU go hardline. Rutte says UK can't change anything without changing red lines and May did magnificent job but was undermined by Westminster gridlock, EU leaders making clear there will be no renegotiation

-Gove pledges free citizenship to EU nationals after Brexit and shifting burden of proof, Hunt says no deal Brexit pursuit would lead to election and political suicide (McVey argues failing to leave on October 31st would be electoral suicide), rumours Hancock is asking TV companies to host live debate for Tory leadership contest. Housing minister Kit Malthouse throws hat in ring as new face with new ideas and that he united Remainers with Brexiteers on the Malthouse compromise, Jesse Norman considering running, Rory Stewart going around talking to people on the streets (including one where he speaks in Dari) though questionable how that helps win over MP's.

-First time all N.Ireland MEP seats have gone to woman

-Papers on MEP elections and the fallout including Farage aiming for Westminster

-Brexit party won in every non London region part of England (and won Wales). This will make Remainers task that bit harder

-May meeting EU leaders to help form next EU Commission. Not awkward at all... Says she has worked hard in these and she greatly regrets not being able to delivery Brexit,

-Equality and Human Rights Commission launches formal investigation into Labour and anti-Semitism , Labour has promised they will continue to fully cooperate and deny they have acted unlawfully in their handling of the issue. Labour were being looked at but would have hoped for maybe a small rebuke and some advice, Labour embrace it and use it shut up critics, they certainly did not want it to go this far. This will add to the fuel of the accusations and might make it harder for the likes of McCluskey to dismiss as a right wing Blairite conspiracy

-Muslim Council of Great Brighton formerly complains to Equality and Human Rights Commission against Tories over handling of Islamophobia. Little surprised they hadn't done this already and though they are outraged at the cynicism of the timing of doing it just after the Labour investigation starts (they say they waited till after MEP elections to avoid being seen as interfering and point out they have done that before), I do have to wonder if they could have chosen better timing.

-Bercow warns idea that parliament will not be able to vote against no deal is hubris, relations with US bigger then one President

-BBC intends to host some Tory leader debates (one for all candidates then final two including Andrew Neill interviews) but some candidates were not consulted and feel this is an attempt to bounce them, SKy News says they want to do a head to head debate of final two, I suspect the news companies are trying to stop the endless wrangles over format by making clear their plans now

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-Ed Davey says Javid become PM would be repeating the same mistake as sending May to number 10, Dorries accuses Stewart of being Gove's "stop Boris" man

-Nandy warns that in Wigan a second referendum will be seen as a betrayal and lead to no deal, Blair urges Corbyn to stop equivocating and back referendum as people have shown they won't vote for those that sit on fence on Brexit

-Will be TV drama based on Jess Philips life

-Labour might wish they had saved this till tomorrow but Alistair Campbell expelled for voting for Lib Dems, a big name due to his skills and personality as Blair's spin-doctor so this will grab attention. Was very public about voting Lib Dem at MEP elections due to wish for referendum, Campbell plans to appeal (while pointing out Blair refused to expel Corbyn when Corbyn congratulated someone who defeated Labour for an MP seat) while plenty MP's pointing out how much more quickly this expulsion happened then several anti-Semitism and those who have threatened the lives of MP's.

I have limited sympathy, I don't like such rules about "vote elsewhere and your out" but if your a critic of Corbyn, don't say you will vote elsewhere as makes you a very easy expulsion. If it is in the rules (and that is challenged), don't break and provide the excuse. However if this rule applies to Campbell then it should apply to Corbyn and his staffers who have not always voted Labour either

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-Henry Newman people's votes sent a pro-Brexit message

-Sir John Curtice what the numbers tell us

-Mark Wallace (sun) Tories need to deliver Brexit

-Gavin Stamp profiles Farage

-Martha Gill how Tory leadership will be changed by MEP elections

-Hinsliff Labour is letting their moment slip by as moving too slowly on Brexit matters
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Tue May 28, 2019 7:44 pm

Maybe our resident Brits can answer this for me....

I really don't understand the total shift to Nationalism in European Politics. Shouldn't it be a dirty word, and those crypto-fascists leading most of the parties be like, a total outcast to Europeans in general.

It seems all really hollow when you look at it, posturing about national interests and the like , i mean that equates to nationalism?? but somehow we've got the modern fascists taking over now. Why they don't just go full Nazi is beyond me.
I mean, Marine Le Pen in France is someone who can never outrun that, considering her Father's statements.

It looks like if the above is true, then the normal parties of Europe are simply extremely rigid and never change their ideologies or lines to fit with the mass, so when a fundamental shift in circumstances takes place, the Europeans simply moved to a party that apparently can react to them of for them. If that's the case, then thats just bad politiking.

Otherwise, i feel like most of these right-wingers should be advocating a return of the monarchies as compromise for strong national figure able to vocalize the national interest, while keeping the democratic institutions.

Over here we can have Trump being very blatant about this, but he's just that, very blatant. The Empire has always made a U.S centric status for Europe since the war, and i see no difference if one reads certain authors including Kissinger, from Nixon's handling of affairs to the way Trump is. I.e Both admired Authoritarians because everything was in its place in their minds. Nixon was just ten times smarter and more dissembling than Trump ever is about it.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed May 29, 2019 12:40 pm

I really don't understand the total shift to Nationalism in European Politics. Shouldn't it be a dirty word, and those crypto-fascists leading most of the parties be like, a total outcast to Europeans in general.


Not sure it is total shift. Same reason as USA vote for America first really, disaffection with the system, the feeling things aren't working their way through globalism, immigration and economy, nostalgia for the past

It seems all really hollow when you look at it, posturing about national interests and the like , i mean that equates to nationalism?? but somehow we've got the modern fascists taking over now. Why they don't just go full Nazi is beyond me.
I mean, Marine Le Pen in France is someone who can never outrun that, considering her Father's statements.


Perhaps she never fully can but she has worked to detoxify the France National brand so her successor might be able to make that final change

It looks like if the above is true, then the normal parties of Europe are simply extremely rigid and never change their ideologies or lines to fit with the mass, so when a fundamental shift in circumstances takes place, the Europeans simply moved to a party that apparently can react to them of for them. If that's the case, then thats just bad politiking.


The challenge in such situations is how to change. Labour for example took a swing to the left by going Corbyn (but various figures have blunted his insurgent power), Tories swung to right after they lost power then swung to centre under Cameron which took power and now may swing to right depending who replaces May. Problem is major parties, whatever their views, are the establishment that people blame for their woes, parties always have difference and fights of base vs centre, of "I will compromise with electorate on this but will stand against on this", so that can see parties shift this way and that with fierce opposition with each shift (Blair and Cameron were despised for shifts to centre, Corbyn's shift to lift was fiercely opposed by MP's and factions on the right).

Otherwise, i feel like most of these right-wingers should be advocating a return of the monarchies as compromise for strong national figure able to vocalize the national interest, while keeping the democratic institutions.


Most of them overthrew monarchies for a reason and it isn't like those with monarchies are being any less protected from nationalism
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed May 29, 2019 4:52 pm

leadership moves, Boris faces court, Bercow tries a May
-Vadaker says N.Ireland going remain and pro-backstop with their MEP's should not be ignored by Westminster and warns chances of no deal is growing, Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford now backs referendum but Lavery says second referendums are sneering at ordinary people and says his views have seen him attacked by segments of his own party

-Bercow says he will not go as now is really not a good time to change Speaker (I would expect a attempted overthrow by October 31st). The woman and equalities chair Maria Miller has said Bercow should not be allowed to stay due to his handling of sexist bullying

-UK mortgage approvals highest in two years

-Papers on Labour troubles including wonder how a party has sunk so low, backlash over Hunt's warning no deal would be electoral suicide and Bercow, Times believe Hunt is seen as flip-flopping on no deal so MP's are moving towards Gove

-ECHR has only ever investigated one party before and that was the BNP, Jewish groups and Jewish Labour MP's saying Labour leadership should hang it's head in shame

-Javid pledges more police on streets, Raadb/Hancock/Javid/Stewart/Malthouse sign a clean campaign pledge but other camps said they had no idea this was planned and feel it is a bit underhand, Stewart points out as a former governor in Afghanistan the suicide bomber trope being used about him is offensive and would double money spent on climate change+diplomatic core.

Hancock (presumably before the pledge) uses fruity language to reject Boris infamous shot about business and says no deal isn't a realistic option given parliament numbers. McVey says only route forward is for party to embrace no deal as public want, Stewart/Javid/Cleverly all says they would block Scottish referendum

-Dawn Butler says everyone knows voting outside party is against the rules, Watson says the expulsion of Alistair Campbell was spiteful and suggests an amnesty given sheer scale of members voting for other parties last week

-Cleverly throws his hat into leadership ring as a Brexiteer

-Boris summoned to court to answer charges of alleged misconduct in public office over that NHS Brexit claim, Boris calls it a political stunt (is a private prosecution from what seems to be a Remainer group). While Remainers have fun with this, political comment ors feel the prosecution is an extremely stupid move and Boris popularity among Tory activists and Brexiteers will shoot up as "Remain establishment will be out to get him"

-Migration Advisory Committee want vets, web designers and architects listed as shortage professions

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-Various ex-ministers for Labour like Charles Clarke former home secretary and former defence Bob Ainsworth saying they voted Lib Dem/Green while plenty of MP's are complaining about Alistair Campbell's expulsion, this has gone really badly in Westminster. Lord Falconer says tens of thousands of members seem to have broken the rule which makes it untenable and the speed of disciplinary process shows which issues leadership care about (ie not anti-Semitism). Polling expert Peter Kellner says he should have been expelled years ago for voting Lib Dems multiple times so asks if he can have a refund for membership fees he has paid for 42 years

-Burden reflects on MEP results and says Labour need honest clarity, Nandy says London Remainers have been patronizing and referendum would further anger, Rees-Mogg says Hunt's new negotiating team idea is well intentioned but not enough time to form one and anybody who no confidences to prevent no Brexit means they are letting Corbyn in. Hannan warns Tories in Brexit catch-22 and activists may not want to face up to difficulties

-McCluskey says people shouldn't be spooked by results and referendum would solve nothing

-Neil Findlay says he was planning to go since March and blames internal fights and toxic leaking for Scottish Labour's problems, fears referendum will then help SNP justify their own second referendum while their justice spokesperson Daniel Johnson resigns blaming the leadership for his resignation and he want to back second referendum, Richard Leonard says he will take the flak for poor result but won't resign. Tory MSP Annie Wells notes "Scottish Labour has once again come out of an election and decided to form a circular firing squad."

-Mayors Burnham and Rotheram ask Grayling to cancel Northern Rail contract

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-Ash Sarkar Labour should be Remain and reform with an immediate fight with EU on state aid

-Freedland on expulsion of Alistair Campbell as a dead cat strategy

-Grice Hunt impressing but will be Gove vs Boris
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu May 30, 2019 7:22 am

I find Corbyn's, the serial rebel and anti-Labour voter, hypocrisy sad. Blair consistently had issue with him, Clare Short and many others on the left of the party but never expelled any of them, even when they did vote, or support other candidates as Corbyn did for Livingstone during the Mayor campaigns.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu May 30, 2019 5:07 pm

Labour now promising a review on Campbell case, trying to claim it was done automatically

leadership, Brexit and tuition fees
-Boris trial or tuition fee cut are papers focus, Finical Times asks all Tory leadership candidates to drop immigration pledge as can't be met and fuels bad feelings

-McVey sets out some spending idea's, backs parents who wish to take kids out of class that discusses same sex relations (this has not go down well with some MP's) but protesting outside a school is wrong. Rory Stewart apologises for smoking opium in a Iran wedding 15 years ago, Raab uses his Jewish ancestry to condemn Corbyn for turning Labour into a stain on the country due to his stance on anti-Semitism. Expected Patel and Morduant will soon throw hat in the ring

-Commons Home Affairs Committee fears another windrush scandal with EU settled status scheme

-Government review recommends tuition be cut to £7,500, restoration of maintenance grants for poorest, more direct grants to universities, more work on further education but student loan repayments should continue for up to 40 rather than 30 years and repayments start at 23k a year rather then 25k. May has given her backing to the ideas, opposition parties call it tinkering, Halfon backs the maintenance grant aspect

-BBC with laws that have been made in last few months

-Car production down 45% due to mass shutdowns as they thought this would be no deal month

-Hammond says he wouldn't join a no deal cabinet (no dealers won't want him) and he would put country over party interest with votes, next PM needs to tackle low pay to win people's trust in a market economy

-Barnier says deal need up for renegotiation says UK either revokes article 50, takes May's deal or leaves on no deal, Brexit happened due to nostalgia, those who hadn't regulation and those felt abandoned due to austerity. Baroness Chakrabarti says Labour could back Leave in any referendum, Corbyn hints a referendum wouldn't have Remain as an option and besides need for second referendum is some way off

-Labour to review Alastair Campbell's case

-Trump says he might meet Farage and Boris while here as they are both friends

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-Patel says they need to leave EU as soon as possible to move things on, party is in power but not governing, Ben Bradley backs McVey

-Reees-Mogg says Boris prosecution is a grave error

-Lord Michael Spencer, minister under Thatcher government, 1922 committee chair from 2001-10 and founder of the ERG, has died. MP for South Worcestershire between 1974 and 1997 then West Worcestershire as boundaries has changed till he retired to Lords in 2010

-Gordon Brown lays into Farage while MEP Neena Gill accuses Brexit party of giving her abuse

-Brexit party considering suing SNP MEP Alyn Smith for... dangerous allegations made about them.

-Ed Davey launches bid for Lib Dem leadership by saying he would ask Queen to intervene to stop no deal Brexit

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-Grimson history of Tory leadership contests

-Kettle thinks Boris chances are overestimated and a centrist may win

-Sarah Smith why SNP are making independence referendum moves now

-Marie Le Conte fears Rory Stewart is another Boris
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri May 31, 2019 5:56 pm

Leadership, Brexit and a quiet news day

-Papers on Barnier comments or lack of GP's

-Mark Harper running for leader as says time for a fresh face. Hammond indicates he won't run for leader as long as he finds someone close to his views as his well known battles for his views have made him divisive

-Corbyn, famed loyalist, says Campbell's actions are not acceptable (he does seem to have managed this with a straight face) but looks forward to Campbell voting Labour again

-Coveney thinks there is a window in June to break Stormont deadlock and if they fail, it will cause a lot of problems for N.Ireland, both he and Bradley admit areas of real difference remain

-CBI warns Tory leadership candidates against no deal (though I doubt any will be swayed), Hammond says Brexit impasse may require election or referendum, McVey says deal isn't goo enough and door is open for EU to change it (EU has long said they won't with withdrawal agreement but could with part 2 ie political declaration)


-Tory donations halved with concerns growing at their finances though they still had more then anyone else in first three months of year

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-Jo Swinson running for Lib Dem leadership

-IDS says in future there needs to be higher threshold of MP support (currently just need 2, IDS suggests double figures) to be able to stand as this is getting chaotic but 1922 committee says Charles Walker says rules won't be changed for an arbitrary limit

-Plaid want a Remain alliance and possibly even a electoral pact for next election

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-Richard Brooks not overly impressed by government's university funding review, Simon Jenkins not impressed as it allows universities to go unchallenged

-Owen Jones wants Lords gone

-Nahal Toosi UK's influence in Washington has deteriorated

-Andy Briggs Lib Dem leadership contest
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:20 am

You know, I had never read anyone commenting on the right and left wings of the Lib Dems before. I guess in an academic sense I was aware they must exist but had never thought about them before. Interesting article :lol:.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:10 pm

Javid moves, Trump comments, more anti-Semitism

-Javid winning over Vote Leave head Matthew Elliot will be a boost, long been believed Javid was a Brexiteer who backs Remain out of loyalty to Osborne but this was costly with Brexiteers so Elliot's support gives credibility. Had deliberately not talked about Brexit plan as he had plans for a big reveal and, in timing that, just prevents it being a problem here is the plan

-Trump backs Boris is a blatant act of political interference and claims others asked for his public backing, may help Boris as Tories have a strong Atlantic wing though might put one or two MP's off. He likes Hunt, feels UK didn't put pressure on EU or give them something to lose, calls Meaghan Markel a nasty person (she said she would leave US if Trump won election), no president has ever been closer then UK and is loved here. John Bolton says they want UK to leave EU and become strong independent nation free of EU regulatory constraint

-Papers mostly on other stories though Trump gets a few mentions

-Labour suspend NEC member Peter Willsman after he blames Israeli embassy for anti-Semitism row (last time he blamed Jewish Trump fans, Labour let him off with an apology), British Board of deputies ask for his expulsion, Lord Falconer says unless it was wasn't Willsman or tape was doctored then has to be expulsion and at longest this should only take 14 days for Labour to sort out and this is an acid test for Labour. Problem for Labour is Campbell took 5 days to be expelled so as soon as they go past that, complaints will escalate.

-Youguv poll that has Lib Dems winning election at 24% getting a lot of attention. 1) beware rogue polls, 2) just after Lib Dems gained headlines while Farage has pointed out Brexit party were listed as "other"

-Bradley refusal to take media questions in N.Ireland has not gone down well, not first time she has done this apparently and in contrast Covney and Stormont leaders gave time to meet press

-D'Arcy Week Ahead

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-Goodwill backs Hunt

-Farage says he is banned from meeting Trump

-Swinson says coalition seems unlikely as both main parties are led by Brexiteers, were mistakes in coalition but was right choice at the time

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-Marina Hyde not optimistic about Tory contest

-Martha Gill on Lib Dem contest

-Forsyth (sun) Boris close to getting on final ballot this week as he prepares for big move, Hancock and Stewart surprising, Peterbrough key to Brexit party and other stories
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