UK Politics

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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:54 pm

Sun Fin wrote:I agree. I think the drug stuff has killed Gove's campaign, and he was always the most vulnerable because ultimately he is the most disliked by the public. Meanwhile I think Hunt at only 40 seats will lose out to Javid/Stewart. At least partly because I can't see him beating Johnson with the party members. So I think Stewart and Javid will be the last of the opposition standing. Will be fascinating, I just wish it wasn't our future on the line.

As two the Jo Brand stuff, as I've said so many times, there is a double standard when it comes to the left.


I don't know what puts MP's off him that they go "star minister" to folding within one scandal, ditto journalists. I get why the public (teacher unions) and Tory activists (Brexit) aren't fond but I expected more to rally to them. I also don't think Hunt's safe managerial style will be picked

Police are now involved apparently

Umunna defects again, Boris and TV, Hancock pulls out
-Raab and Stewart teams teased each other "come join us" as they waited for vote, noted Jo Johnson seemed a tad reluctant to turn up for ballot, puzzlement over Hunt tweet about yesterday "Woke up this morning and felt a bit like the morning of my wedding. Something big is going to change but don't quite know how it will unfold"

-All Boris rivals have written letter committing to TV debates while MP's happily mentioned Boris past advocacy for leadership TV debates. In the afternoon Boris said he won't do Sunday Channel 4 one but will do Tues eve (after second round of votes) on BBC as one with too many candidates doesn't work in his view

-Hunt says numbers show he is best placed to challenge Boris, Churchill would never run away from media, no deal is defeatist, can't be a repeat of May's coronation. Is weary of people and broadcasters using his name as a swearword or mispronouncing (Victory Derbyshire latest to make that error) it. He has asked broadcasters to stop doing it, (they may be impossible given it tends to be errors but they could certainly do with giving him a full apology)

-Stewart says public deserved to see candidates in TV debates and who can stand up against Boris, can't be a repeat of 2016 coronation, lots of questions Boris has to answer, decides (and admits he is doing this) to dodge question about if he trusts Boris with the nuclear codes

-As expected Matt Hancock pulls out after meeting with Javid last night, says he ran as a candidate for the future but party only focused on the unique circumstances now, will seek other ways to advance his policies, will talk to other candidates (takes shot at Boris over dodging debates and proroguing parliament so don't expect Hancock to endorse Boris). Damian Green has worked rival leaders to leave Hancock alone for weekend before seeking his endorsement.

Was widely expected, three "change" candidates were not going to go and Stewart's momentum was squeezing him out, is not expected to back Javid and his supporters are expected to split between Gove, Hunt, Javid and Stewart

-Boris and team strategy when asked about foreign office seems to be taking the credit for world response to Salisbury (was that May though?) and anyone asking about the whole "got a woman jailed via my own incompetence" is an Iranian apologist

-Boris says he took cocaine once as a teenager, needs to be an end to blue on blue action as public sick of it, if his comments sometimes cause uproar but get people interested in politics then it isn't a bad thing, doesn't want no deal and Brady amendment solves the border issue but isn't a disaster if no deal happens and have to leave on time, need to show grit and fortitude with Brussels, EU can see UK politics has changed so treaty has to change, London proves he can handle detail.

====

-Papers on Boris near certainty and his refusal (at time) to commit to TV debates, also the horse-trading to get some candidates to drop out with eyes particularly on Hancock

-Cabinet Secretary Sir Mark Sedwill says civil service and pubic bodies are in pretty good prepared shape for no deal hit but he isn't so sure business are ready

-More than 200 high-rise buildings in England with cladding similar to that used on Grenfell Tower have yet to begin work to remove it....

-Umunna joins Lib Dems, says he was wrong to think people wanted a new option and he underestimated the need for infrastructure on ground (admits Cable warned him on this), won't have a preference for leader as a newbie (wise move), he writes a defence of his values and his joining Lib Dems.

Boost to Lib Dems, the PR over getting a new MP from another party is always welcome and adds to feeling of lead Remain group, they have gained a talented figure but it may be awhile before he wins them over with Umunna reputation being badly damaged by the constant changing of parties and his past attacks on Lib Dems (he says they have changed from coalition years rather then blame himself), lots of questions about by-elections given how often he has switched now.

-Next year the May bank holiday changes dates: Monday 4 May goes to Friday 8 May to mark the 75th anniversary of VE Day

-Business Committee bemoans government failure to curb excessive boardroom pay

=====

-Gareth Snell why he went against Labour whip on no-deal blocking bill

-Mohammed Amin, chair of Tory Muslim Forum says he would resign from party if Boris became leader, compared him to Hitler (that was not a wise move) and fails a morality test

-Lord Sugar thinks Boris is best placed to beat Corbyn

====

-Mark Wallace welcomes TV debates for leadership candidates

-Tom Peck not happy with leadership contest

-Simon Jenkins Boris is inept but charm should not be underestimated

-Sebastian Whale political attitudes towards BBC

-Kuessenberg Boris front-runner and target
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:16 pm

Don't forget channel 4 debate tomorrow ever

Tory leadership, Iran disagreement, Blair hits back at Corbyn
-Papers on Tory contest with some fears (particularly if Gove vs Boris) it could go toxic, Telegraph says there is a plan among whips to avoid going to activists since Boris has clear lead, Mail says EU is dimsissve of Boris and feels he will be forced to retreat from deadline

-Hunt, Stewart and Gove agree there should be legally binding air quality targets

-Hunt lengthy interview with ConHome

-D'Arcy's Week Ahead

-Homophobic hate crimes have doubled in five years

-Lindington says after politics he wants to return to writing and research (with an eye on William Cecil), pressures on union greater then any time he has ever known and will be worse if no deal

-Government thinks Iran is likely behind the tanker attacks, Corbyn questions the evidence and says UK should be helping ease tensions

-Work and pensions select committee have an inquiry about support for the bereaved

-Corbyn says we were told for decades that inequality didn't matter, Blair has hit back for constant comparisons of his government with Tories, arguing he invested the most in public services in decades and setting out successes like hospital waiting times, more staff numbers, lifting people out of poverty, tax and benefit help to poorest, bucked trend on social mobility among rich western nations, aid work abroad including trebling funding and 0.7% funding

-Government cracking down on blue badges fraud (free parking for disabled), they hope if people have confidence in the system they won't challenge those with hidden disabilities who need it

-Police drop case against Jo Brand while BBC have edited her comments out of the program, Farage wonders exactly people would have reacted if he had joked about throwing acid against a left-wing figure, Jo Brand says she apologised at the time (it reads like a half apology though) and it was an ill-judged joke

====

-Dodds wants folic acid fortification

-Lord Patten on Hong Kong

-Patel says Boris infamous burka article was a defence of female rights and wasn't mockery but has been misconstrued by others

-Adam Price and Stephen Kinnock both say they took drugs in youth, Villiers says she tried it but it made her sick

-Adam Price says BBC lacks morality for it's license fee decision

====

-Peck wonders if others will follow Umunna

-Robert Verkaik Tory contests shows lack of social mobility

-Arj Singh two ex-Tory voter groups on potential leaders
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Lord Yang Jiahua » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:29 am

Despite whatever story may suddenly say the Leadership battle in Britain makes U.S politics look good, you guys are still far more civilized than us at this sort of thing.

That apparently the UK public pays attention to every past detail of the candidates lives and actually gives a damn is one reason.
That committing a Godwin error (Umunna) isn't just a trick of late night pundits and gets some attention gets noticed.

Your leaders are also willing to brand themselves Conservative while still talking about issues in ways normally reserved for the left-wing, without doing what we do here in the States. I.e "Law and Order" - Crime , "War on Drugs" - Drugs, "kick out all the foriegners" -Immigration.

Just put Mr.Oof in the PM spot already, and watch him squirm with much less endurance than May had at it.
Also i think UK political theater is more lively, the MPs actually jeer and boo and react and other such things on the benches, i can see why our politicians are so dull, half of them probably sleep through Congress considering nobody reacts to squat, or is allowed to i guess.

Lacking Basic theater in the political centers (something that got Davy Crockett got kicked out of Congress for) is a definite contributing factor to the heavy swing right in the U.S, because every reaction takes on the dull, monotone, academic responses which have a stifling etiquette to them, even if they are correct morally, people forceably won't listen because it keeps sounding all the same regardless of the issue.

I would much rather have Congress people getting into fist-fights over the issues or hitting people with chairs, theres clips of these sorts of things in other Parliamentary nations. Least it shows they care, or the illusion of they care. Here it gets so dull that eventually the ends-means calculus starts showing. Even if the end is good, this kind of thing turns people off.

At this point, i feel the Republicans regret one thing, The Number of times Bills got before the floor to turn the U.S Congress into a basic Parliament like that of the U.K ( these occurred in the 1980s) and rejecting them.

I genuinely liked Hancock, at least from the profile on the previous page of him, well-educated, understands the world we live in etc.

Trump is angling for a War with Iran, for some time now, something his party will unanimously vote for, but i doubt he'll have any international support if the reason isn't something genuinely and perfectly 9/11 esque. Its a historical trick to then say the British Empire got us into all this by making us take over its commitments. (The Saudi-Alliance, supporting Israel, isolating Iran, all originally British policies). But the Empire will Empire for sometime still, lets get Donald Commodus out of the way first though, and find Septimus.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:33 pm

One reason for the seemingly better behaviour is "no blue on blue" pledges as they know it will go down badly with MP's and party, if desperate the kitchen sink may be thrown at Boris or they may play nice to keep their future job chances alive.

That apparently the UK public pays attention to every past detail of the candidates lives and actually gives a damn is one reason.


They don't. I seriously doubt most of the candidates are known even in terms of name beyond the activists and Westminster circle

Your leaders are also willing to brand themselves Conservative while still talking about issues in ways normally reserved for the left-wing, without doing what we do here in the States. I.e "Law and Order" - Crime , "War on Drugs" - Drugs, "kick out all the foriegners" -Immigration.


Part of that is there is a feel the party needs rejuvenating and fresh idea's to beat Corbyn, to give a platform of post-Brexit though manifesto heavy this leadership election is not

In terms of political theatre, our PMQ's is apparently notorious among leadership circles that any country leader would go through it. There are a lot of issues with PMQ's and the very red vs blue pugilistic style but it has pluses as well. US meanwhile has been an inspiration for our Select Committee and attempts to rebalance, after the Blair years, power away from executive to the legislature

I would much rather have Congress people getting into fist-fights over the issues or hitting people with chairs, theres clips of these sorts of things in other Parliamentary nations. Least it shows they care, or the illusion of they care. Here it gets so dull that eventually the ends-means calculus starts showing. Even if the end is good, this kind of thing turns people off.


I really wouldn't. There is a need for calm technocrats and if someone is so indisciplined that disagreement leads to violence, it is not good for a country. I mean that sort of thing is usually in countries where things aren't great and I doubt politicians are any more popular there

Edit:
McVey picks side, Ireland's warning, row over Iran, Trump uses deaths to attack Khan
-Guardian's "what's on TV today" guide on debates "That the UK is bound for hell in a hand-assisted vehicle, there is little doubt. All that remains is to discover which of these escapees from Pandora’s box will taxi us there; a more wretched collection of dissemblers, idiots, narcissists and people who have mistakenly taken drugs is difficult to imagine under one studio roof, but here we are. An asbestos-clad Krishnan Guru-Murthy meets the contenders before an audience drawn from across this broken isle. God actually help us."

-McVey backs Johnson due to his commitment to Brexit deadline and that he has agreed to incorporate her blue collar ideas into his plans

-Papers on Boris, Sunday Telegraph says row between May and Treasury as May wants 27 billion education boost but Treasury feel that ties successor hands

-Raab suggests Australian style points based immigration system, Javid says he only and Boris are candidates for change, Stewart says he isn't in Boris cabinet discussions

-Hunt says Corbyn's questioning of UK intelligence on Iran is pathetic but predictable as he never backs British intelligence or interests with Corbyn in grip of virulent anti-Americanism, Thornberry says important to establish independent evidence and with tensions high there is need for caution

-Vadaker warns no backstop essentially means no deal and trying to time limit essentially means no backstop, he can't betray border communities on the vague hope of technology in future might exist to prevent hard border, May was a good negotiator with a good team who probably got best deal possible and he is worried by idea in Westminster she was a bad negotiator.

-Caroline Lucas the compassion act

-Trump calls Khan a national disgrace who is destroying London (was a spate of murders over 24 hours, naturally Trump's thoughts turn not to dead and the grieving but how to get one over on a mayor...), Corbyn says it is awful he uses deaths for such purposes.

-Stewart feels single market would be a mistake and would anger those who backed Brexit but would be happy with customs union if immigration was taken out

====

-Dan Hodges Boris is the new May, why Javid wasn't at banquet, Gove to pull attacks

-Rawnsley why Tory MP's back Boris even when they despise him

-Kate Andrews on Tory proposed tax cuts
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:55 pm

I agree with all that DZ said. I hate how childish our MPs behave, I would trade it for intelligent debate any day.

On which note I really enjoyed tonight's debate. It was great to see Hunt and Gove in particular step in when they thought that the interviewer was out of line with their questions directed to their rivals. The only real blue on blue abuse was directed at Johnson, who frankly deserves it. The guy is a disgrace and shouldn't be anywhere near being PM. At one point Raab and Stewart butted heads but the discussion stayed on policy details and NOTHING personal was said which is so refreshing to see.

Some stand out thoughts: Stewart was very popular with the public, he got more applause than all the others put together. His attention to detail within the Brexit debate clearly appeals to the centre ground, as opposed to Raab who was the only one on tonight that I simply can't imagine voting for. I'd not heard Javid speak before but I have read DZ's descriptions of him being "robotic". I would say that he isn't a natural speaker like all the others who are all quite gifted in that area, but robotic isn't fair based, at least, on tonight's performance. He tried to be real and personable and I think that came through. In contrast Hunt is the mature statesman and he came across well tonight, but he wasn't a standout performer, instead he lived up to his billing. Blandly competent.

The accolade for standout performers go to Gove and Stewart, who when they were answering non-Brexit questions got me excited. The question on their biggest priority and Stewart's answer to what is your biggest weakness were just superb. I feel that with either of them leading the country we might have a political leader who could genuinely achieve some of what they set out to do and would set us up well for the future. Sadly I don't think they have a hope with the Tory membership.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:25 am

Yeah I thought Stewart won the audience and that may come into play when MP's decide who to back to face Boris, it is only a TV audience (focus groups will play a part I imagine now) but he had cut through.. Also agree on the lack of blue and blue, was a friendly atmosphere

I'd not heard Javid speak before but I have read DZ's descriptions of him being "robotic". I would say that he isn't a natural speaker like all the others who are all quite gifted in that area, but robotic isn't fair based, at least, on tonight's performance.


That was a lot better. He has improved in recent months but it used to be painful listening to him, he would rigidly stick to the party line even if the question was "what cake would you like for your birthday?", delivery was as if a robot. It was infamous in Westminster. Here I felt he started a little nervously and yeah he isn't the most natural of speakers (or perhaps an indication of which one got the comprehensive education) but he came across well as a person.

My thoughts

Channel 4: Nice staging but the camera's did seem to quite know where to shoot Gove from, they had a good position for the others but they really needed to have that sorted before they started. Brave move empty podium Boris (maybe should have added a blond wig) and keeping their shots down so candidates could make the kicks mostly. Host Krishnan Guru-Murthy wasn't very good, he had some good questions (he doomed Raab with weakness one) but struggled to keep control of Raab vs Stewart (which as Sun Fin notes, they kept the personal out so was friendly) which led to timing issues, his "weakness" follow up on Javid was awful and he got hammered by the candidates for it, took a shot about climate change only for Gove and Hunt to go "um we did mention it".

Gove: He didn't seem to quite know which way to face, talked with passion and conviction, dealt with the drug question well (helped by the others rallying to him), got his message of "I keep delivering, I do it against the odds" (though that last bit veered into...overly boastful/pompous) and set out his ambitions for the country well, his knife crime answer might not strike well with Tory base but had a warm, kindly feel to it.

However did feel he kind of stuck to his line too much, he is usually far better at shaping answers to question (might be I'm used to his excellent standards so a slight fall below rings out), answer to weakness was cringe-worthy, used family history well once or twice but felt he could have fleshed that out better. A fine performance but I'm not sure it is enough to change minds and reverse momentum but then, it excited Sun Fin so I could well be wrong and it touched others way it didn't touch me

Hunt Nice joke about his weaknesses before giving a serious answer, was a little in background early on but grew into it with an accomplished, polished display. The problem is, he needed as the "continuity establishment candidate" (as he is being framed) to offer more then that, intresting on social care and gave some good answers but didn't think he shook off the mantle, felt Gove had the better night of the two. Went for Corbyn in the kind of strong terms that didn't work for May and feel puts people off, joke about Boris bravery has been well noted. Also whoever put him in that suit needs sacking

Javid Like I said, a little nervy at start and not best speaker but passion came across, he sold his background well and how it shaped him, that there needs to be a different messenger and he can reach areas others can't, gave an honest thoughtful answer about weakness. If he was up against Gove and Hunt, I would say he would have gone ahead but as the "coming up from behind", problem is Stewart is the man he is fighting to stay in contest.

Boris A heroic and brave performance.... Nothing said till Stewart's final speech was devastating for Boris, his team will calculate they can pick up things from this and he comes in fresh faced for BBC where more space for him to make his mark and that as front-runner, he has everything to lose. May's team (including Crosby) felt the same and it was a PR disaster, other things damaged May more perhaps but ducking out of most of the TV debates hit her reputation badly. Time will tell if this deservedly smacks Boris hard or if, yet again, the rules don't apply to Boris

Brave brave sir Boris

Raab One can see why he got rated on backbenches, that he was a capable lawyer, he had the message of trust, of the true Brexiteer. This was a disaster for his dying hopes, prorogue is a disaster for him and will provide the excuse for others not to give him cabinet as it was the one time the others turned on one of their own, he was hammered on this (Javid implying dictator for example). The look on his face when Guru-Murthy asked about his anti-feminist comments showed he knew he was in trouble, look at what I do rather then what I say doesn't work as a response (though his policy idea's to help woman were intresting), Stewart also undermined him effectively.

Stewart He might want to be more aware camera's can see him when he isn't in focus, he seems amused half the time and very energetic, I can see this being used to mock him in future. Probably should have dealt with Raab's "Venezuela line" by using Ireland at least once, I doubt Raab's attack worked but still not wise to leave that sort of thing unchecked. Came across warmly, thoughtful, clearly struck with audience as first and more often applauded from what I could hear from TV, could do with keeping answers within the time limit.

Managed to turn "your not fighting" into a passionate not machismo answer that undercut his rivals, bin joke worked ok for this debate but needs to have a fresh on if he got onto Tuesday eve BBC debate, gave strong answer to weakness after Gove and Raab both fluffed it. Went for Boris with entertaining final speech (bar the betting odds line). If media gets behind his performance (so far he is winner with Gove possibly second but not game changing lift so far), it could lift him into contention
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Sun Fin » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:38 pm

Dong Zhou wrote: Also agree on the lack of blue and blue, was a friendly atmosphere


Good, I’m glad. All the reporting I’ve read focused on the prologue debate and talking about how heated it got. I agreed that there was some robust conversation but the articles I read this morning made it sound like WW3!

Dong Zhou wrote: That was a lot better. He has improved in recent months but it used to be painful listening to him, he would rigidly stick to the party line even if the question was "what cake would you like for your birthday?", delivery was as if a robot. It was infamous in Westminster. Here I felt he started a little nervously and yeah he isn't the most natural of speakers (or perhaps an indication of which one got the comprehensive education) but he came across well as a person.


Interesting point. I wouldn’t have made that connection is I consider myself to have lots of opportunities to grow as a public speaker and I went to a comprehensive school. However, most of those opportunities were outside of school (mainly church).

Seems like we agree. It will be interesting to see how the tone changes when Johnson is in the mix too.

I also think Javid was helped on the weaknesses question by following Stewart who gave a honest answer which went down well with the audience. I wonder if he’d tried the same approach if he didn’t see it work well for his rival.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:17 pm

Well there was the bit where Stewart tried to suplex Raab through the table...

I also think Javid was helped on the weaknesses question by following Stewart who gave a honest answer which went down well with the audience. I wonder if he’d tried the same approach if he didn’t see it work well for his rival.


Good point. Gove and Raab's were groan inducing "a weakness that makes me look good", once Stewart broke cover it allowed for vulnerability without risking "why would I vote for someone who admits to such a thing" when playing it safe would be tempting

Tory press gallery hustings, Tom Watson pushes for Remain
-Hancock backs Boris as has unique personality that can unite party however supporters like Margot James and Tobias Ellwood now backs Stewart,

-Boris says current internet plans are laughably unambitious and pledges access to super-fast broadband for all homes within six years. Boycotts (so so brave) the press gallery hustings

-Surprise as Gove defends Boris in Today Programme, the insult Boris delivered about business was taken out of context and his mayor record shows Boris is pro business, needs to be race to ensure Boris is properly tested, denies there are moral concerns with Boris.

During press hustings Gove feels he is the one that best understands N.Ireland politics, must accept we are a parliamentary democracy, draws laughter when asked about rumours Boris are getting MP's to vote for other figures to stop Gove getting on final ballot by saying the idea that Tory MPs are duplicitous is wholly new one to him, will back Hammond's pledge to keep deficit falling. One of first trips as PM would be to see Merkel, his mother considers him a proper Brexiteers, open to weekly press conferences (this feels like an idea he would regret), Corbyn happier speaking up for Iran rather then the working class. Looks forward to Cameron's book and public needs to hear more from Cameron, triggering article 50 without clear plan was a mistake, all leadership candidates voted for May's deal in the end.

-Hunt says EU willing to renegotiate as they want Brexit solved, disagreed privately with May on her approach and doesn't think they should ask parliament to back the backstop.

In hustings says his Soviet Union comment didn't damage relations with EU leaders as they respect those that say the tough things they might not want to hear, only one that can deliver Brexit for Brexiteers and those that voted Lib Dems, Khan should focus more on policing rather then politics. Broadly agrees with May's definition of hard border, Bercow has not always been impartial but has opened up parliament, Brexit itself hasn't damaged world standing but failure to delivery it has, refuses to back Hammond's pledge in case he needs wriggle room for recession.

-Stewart needs to stop things like "won't serve Boris" followed by "will serve Boris" in same day or "as diplomat won't criticize ally publicly" when asked about Trump's tweet then demanding all candidates condemn Trump's Khan comments.

In press hustings says citizen assemblies is a threat to get parliament to get deal through first but parliament could reject whatever the assembly came up with and expects assembly to listen to likes of Barnier, thinks he can get a dozen or so new Tory MP's to back deal and Labour figures like Nandy but doesn't think he can get Redwood to back it, parliament will block no deal. A second referendum means he would have failed and people underestimate how damaging it would be, he won't say which way he would vote, says he technically has 33 MP's he requires but frankly he can't rely on that, can't see how Boris can keep Hancock and Francois happy, infrastructure key to close productivity gap.

-Javid extremely confident he has the numbers, wouldn't agree to anything that leads to infrastructure on border, supports universal credit but claims take too long and would look at appeals process, Trump should focus on domestic politics rather then Khan including far worse US knife crime, would vote Brexit in any referendum, interested in idea of monthly press conferences. Feels he is getting better as a communicator , not keen on drug safe rooms, pursuing bilateral security deals against advice, went into banking because it was the most meritocratic of the options open to him and Asians pick careers that require exams as other professions will discriminate.

-Raab lavishes press on press during hustings, says EU talking against him because they fear him, May's border wording is ambiguous so wouldn't accept it, Ireland wants UK in custom union so overemphasis border issue. His feminist comment was about double standards, quietly confident of getting 33 candidates needed, Trump's tweet wasn't constructive and proud London has a Muslim mayor and a Muslim Home Secretary, universal credit needs to adapt to fluid circumstances of claimants, claims for Stewart to get May's deal through he would have to prorogue parliament, commits to monthly press conferences if elected.

====

-Watson says Labour need a clear Brexit position and he hopes that means campaigning for Remain, only second referendum can break deadlock but will only happen if Labour pushes for it, they are too scared to tell truth about Europe ie that Europe is a good thing. Labour cabinet meeting to discuss Brexit strategy is promptly cancelled

-Papers on Chicken Boris

-May (sun) mental health, didn't watch channel 4 debates as doing red box work.

-Gauke points out every Boris telegraph article seems to include billions of spending pledges without how he would pay for it and wonders who would self-sacrifice themselves to be chancellor, Morgan focus not on next election potential but on competence,Steve Baker warns ERG's issue with deal is far deeper then the backstop and Tory candidate seems to be missing this

-Hammond fears Tory leadership candidates are risking reputation for fiscal prudence, discussed Hong Kong with China, we are very vulnerable to US-China trade war

====

-Martin McCluskey and Andrew Hilland proposals for Scottish Labour

-Andrew Peirce with snippets about Tory leadership including Cameron's support and Labour's troubles

-Harris democracy needs fixing

-James Crisp EU figures consider Raab a turnip
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:25 pm

Debates on BBC1 at 8pm tonight, Boris has committed to this one, results of leadership round 2 in around a owner

Youguv poll makes me wonder when a political view actually turns into treason territory or just blatantly disloyal

Edit: Raab out and Javid in but only just, needed 33 and got it. Gove pulls closer to Hunt, Stewart sneaks ahead of Javid with 37.
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Re: UK Politics

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:13 pm

Raab is the only one to fall out which I'm not disappointed by. I really hope Johnson gets destroyed in the debate.

Stewart came 4th but was a lot closer to Hunt and Gove then before, I wonder if some of Hunt's supporters might begin to defect? The One Nation caucus seem to be lining up behind Hunt so far but with Stewart advocating a more central position - especially those who deem themselves remainers, may defect?

Raab's supporters are likely to plum for Brexiteer candidates so presumably will go to either Johnson, Gove or Javid? The debate tonight will be fascinating!
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