British Monarchy

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Unread postby Duncan » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:23 pm

It seems most of ous Brits are happy with our monarchy, which brings in millions of dollars each year from interest in the institution in the US alone. It means nothing to us if no-one else wants it.

But it seems Canadians, Australians and numerous other former colonies are happy to retain the link because (a) it costs them nothing, and (b) it is constitutionally better than any alternatives they have thought up so far.

Better to have a much-loved (or at least an unobjectionable) old biddy as head of state than some elected monarch... oops, I meant president. The latter method produces a head of state that nearly half the country have hated since before their elevation and three quarters of the country hate after they are deposed. :lol:
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:15 pm

What bothers me about Presidents is the whole pass down the family thing- we had Clinton and two Bushes, are we going back to Clinton again? That's just awful.
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Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:22 pm

Thts one reason why I support the Monachy. They might not be perfect but there better then Presidents, certainly since they do hold a lot of power. While unlike alot of people I actually support Bush I wouldn't want to have him in England.
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Unread postby Tigger of Kai » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:10 am

Shi Tong wrote:German? What you mean that people were born before outside of the UK, and that they came here and became British afterwards? What? Like the fact that 40% of London's gene pool is French?

Well if you're saying they should be treated like everybody else, then I couldn't agree more! First thing is for them to get proper jobs. But I think you may be underestimating the importance of "blood" to these people. It's really the key to the whole enterprise. Could you imagine Prince William taking a Taiwanese wife? No more than you could imagine him rolling up his sleeves and helping you build furniture for a living. The monarchy is about maintaining class and privilege and inequality.

Shi Tong wrote:That's what they are, humans, not Gods representative on earth who should be obeyed.

Look, you know that, and I know that, but Her Majesty the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith (By the Grace of God)? She thinks otherwise.

Shi Tong wrote:Does it cost too much to keep them? Not really.

Here's a business proposal for you: kill the Royals, keep "their" money.
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Unread postby Duncan » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:25 pm

Earning those millions for the British economy (especially through tourism and morbid interest by citizens of republics) is a pretty sound basis for a dozen or so royal jobs as far as I'm concerned. Lesser royals already have more conventional jobs. Incidentally, buying products branded Duchy Originals is a way of supporting Prince Charles.

Tigger of Kai wrote:Here's a business proposal for you: kill the Royals, keep "their" money.

As a business proposal it is utter rubbish. The income generated for the economy each year by their very existence is greater than the value of their assets. Without them, that income would be lost. So much for a business proposal.

Some modern radicals hatred for the idea of inequality leads them to fail to see the wood for the trees - when it comes down to it, the solution they offer is "kill 'em all". This is the same unethical approach decried in Nazism, Stalinism, the Cultural Revolution and both the rhetoric and actions of radical Islam. A 19th century radical attitude to monarchy isn't very post-modern.
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:50 pm

Well if you're saying they should be treated like everybody else, then I couldn't agree more!


Well, yeah I am, I just think they're like the rest of us.

However, I agree with Sun Hua that they do us more good than harm in hard £'s, so maybe we should keep them just for that! :lol:

Could you imagine Prince William taking a Taiwanese wife? No more than you could imagine him rolling up his sleeves and helping you build furniture for a living. The monarchy is about maintaining class and privilege and inequality.


Agreed, class system= me hates it.

And I think they're also secretly racist for not considering anything but pure Royal blood from their own stock of inbred Royal breed..

Look, you know that, and I know that, but Her Majesty the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith (By the Grace of God)? She thinks otherwise.


Suppose you're right old chap! It is rather stupid that the Queen thinks she's God on earth.. what a joke! :lol:

Here's a business proposal for you: kill the Royals, keep "their" money.


Only if we can split it 50/50! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nah, I dont think we should kill anyone really.

It's a tough question I suppose because I do hate the class system, I also hate racism, along with all other ismssss, but then, I dont hate the Royal family for their existence at all.. I do think it does the country good in £'s overall too.

I also like rich people, who come to my shop to buy furniture because I can sell them lots of stuff and make a lot of money for myself....
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Unread postby SunXia » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:32 pm

The area where I grew up is an area that seems to collectively hate the British Monarchy!! Not surprising considering it is an area in Northern Ireland which has a nationalist population!!

Personally, I'm not particularly bothered by the British Monarchy, which some people find surprising considering of the area I do come from!! But, considering that I chose to live in Liverpool, a legitimate part of Britain, I think it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to come here and then state that I hate your monarchy!!
But they really don't bother me, I think they're nice as little heads of state, they really don't do that much harm!!
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Unread postby Darius » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:33 pm

Directed at Tigger:

Your main bone with the Monarchy seems to boil down to two main points:

1) The cost for their upkeep.
2) The fact that they are (according to you) a symbol of authoritarianism, anti-democracy etc.

On the first point: this has really already been answered. As tourist attractions, the royals bring in more money than they cost. And if you say that it's not fair that they don't have 'real jobs', well, I hardly call sitting and watching your company make you billions of dollars a year without lifting a finger a real job, but I don't see you bawling for the removal of Bill Gates as Microsoft CEO, do I?

Besides, I don't see what you're problem is. Even you've admitted it's the British people's decision whether or not to get rid of the monarchy all together, and - oh look, it's we who are having to pay for their upkeep. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it costs the citizens of the Commonwealth countries a rather minimal amount when compared to us.

Anyway, second point. First of all, if you have any delusions about the Queen holding real power, I advise you dispense of them now, since that's what they are: delusions. From the State to the Church of England, any power the Monarchy once held has been handed over to their representative, whether they be the Prime Minister or the Arch-Bishops.

Secondly, please don't associate the 'crimes' of the British Empire with the Monarchy. The fact is, the Monarchy's power has been pretty much gone ever since the English civil war - when the idea of colonialism, let alone colonial empires, was still in its early days. I have more to say on this issue, but the fact is it's not relevant to this debate, for the reasons I've just presented.

The point about them being 'Germans': again, this has already been sorted really. Yes, they're of German descent. So what? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of your other arguments against the Monarchy that they're supposedly symbols of prejudice? That aside, the fact is, the Monarchy hasn't been truly British for a long time now if you follow the logic that their descent makes the current Royal Family German. Even before the House of Sach- ok, I can't spell it, but you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, even before them, the Royal Family was the Hanoverians, who were brought in as a result of succession issues from the Stuarts, who were in fact Scottish.

Before them, we had the Tudors, who were Welsh. Then before that, we had the Plantagenants, who spent half their time fighting in France, but only because before them we had the Normans, who were, that's right, French. Before the Normans we were ruled by the Saxons, who are often called the last of the English Kings, except they didn't really rule all of England - originally they were divided into separate kingdoms, and even after Alfred's time, they spent all their time fighting with the Danes, who were Scandinavian. And in fact the Saxons were German anyway. Oh look, we're back where we're started. So, in fact, we haven't really had... well, any English kings, if we go by your logic.

But then you can't really say any better about your government; whether it's British, French or someone else, the fact is the original Canadians are very much an ethnic minority now, and certainly not in positions of power in your government. So kindly don't hold our Monarchy's mixed heritage against us or them, please and thank you.

Final point: what the Monarchy symbolises. Far from a symbol of our less than democratic past, I believe that the Monarchy symbolises a sense of national unity. The Roman Empire, possibly the most successful Empire in the history of man, was successful because of a lot of things, not least their highly efficient military, but one of the main factors was the sense of 'Roman-ism' which came with them - a concept represented by their Emperor. A single, hereditary Head of State - even a figurehead with no actual power - gives a nation a much stronger sense of national unity. Or at least that's what I think.

Anyway, must go now. Will be happy to debate this issue further.
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Unread postby Duncan » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:46 pm

While I'm cheering you on on lots of fronts, Darius, there is a rather backward-looking symbolism to a lot of the institutions of monarchy. Only republican ideologues trying to make political capital are interested because in this case these institutions are symbolic rather than practical.
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Unread postby Darius » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:51 pm

I realise that, but what I meant was the Monarchy's not a bad symbol, if you see what I mean.
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