British Monarchy

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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:32 pm

Tigger of Kai wrote:If strong nationalism is what they're after then they should remember that the Normans were the biggest obstacle to the English becoming strong, or a nation!


I'll agree to that, and to the sentiments about needing more emphasis on pre-Conquest history generally.

King Harold II. the Passion-Bearer doesn't get nearly enough love, IMHO. He was a diligent, soft-spoken and well-regarded king (or, as Vladimir Moss put it: 'pious, humble and affable to all good men', but one who 'treated malefactors with great severity, and gave general orders to his earls, ealdormen, sheriffs and thegns to imprison all thieves, robbers and disturbances of the kingdom'), whose sole flaw seems to have been his impatience - but for some reason he only gets remembered as 'that bloke who took an arrow to the eye at Hastings'.

After Hastings, it is interesting that the torchbearers of Saxon England fled the Norman Invasion mostly to Varangian Ruthenia (Vladimir II. Monomakh himself married Harold's daughter!), or to Byzantium.

Tigger of Kai wrote:When the failures of John the Doofus made certain that the Plantagenets wouldn't rule France, that's when it became clear that, instead of the backwater it had always been, England would be a nation, and a liberty-loving nation at that.


The English don't have a very good record after the Norman conquest of standing up for their own liberties - folks like Wat Tyler and Gerrard Winstanley aside. The English parliamentarians were all too willing to give up their basic self-determination, first to the brutal and genocidal 'republican' dictatorship of the Cromwells, then to the Lowland usurpers of the House of Orange, and finally to the Teutons who rule England today. There was a small hope that Prince Philip might have helped bring England back to holy Orthodoxy, but sadly he embraced the postmodern credo of the Whiggish English state.

But perhaps there is hope for Charles...?
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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:24 pm

Varangian Ruthenia


Where?

I would be amazed if Prince Charles changes religion (at least in public) though he may well change the relationship between Anglican church and monarch. I suspect he is going to get into enough trouble as King without changing to a, for the British, alien religion.
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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby Tigger of Kai » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:14 am

WeiWenDi wrote:The English don't have a very good record after the Norman conquest of standing up for their own liberties l

Oh I think they did a fantastic job, especially considering the pro-autocratic pressure from comparable Continental states. They were willing to bring on civil war with all its risks rather than have their Parliament crushed by the Stuarts the way similar assemblies in France and Spain were crushed by royal power. Though the sadly predictable consequence was that the army temporarily seized power, Cromwell could not blot out English liberty the way France's was blotted out long before by legitimate kings. Because none of the Stuarts were as able as Louis XIV, Parliament reemerged more powerful than before.
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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:32 am

Yesterday Graham Allen discussed rights, Charles I and King John at Westminster Hall.

Confession time, who on this forum is secretly the Labour MP? :P
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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby Sun Fin » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:26 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:
Confession time, who on this forum is secretly the Labour MP? :P


Dammit, you've seen through my false persona :lol:
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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby SunXia » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:51 pm

Stop it Finny it is I!! Haha nice nice!!
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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:40 pm

Tigger of Kai wrote:Oh I think they did a fantastic job


About five percent of them did - those in the propertied merchant and gentry classes. Everybody else rolled over as their traditional liberties were progressively curtailed on a scale hitherto unforeseen in the whole of English history. Against these Tudor-era innovations only the likes of Charles and his High-Church advisors ever stood up for the rights of the landless peasantry and the traditional artisan class to free movement and the use of commons.

Tigger of Kai wrote:They were willing to bring on civil war with all its risks


How selfless and enlightened of them. Let's ask the Irish and the Scots what they think of the results.
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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:50 am

Richard III to have his DNA mapped. I realize mostly due to lack of knowledge about him compared to other monarchs but why not do that for all our found monarchs? Or at least ones before modern times.
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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby SunXia » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:22 pm

Ack the obsession with that man continues I really don't understand it!! There are far more interesting kings, he was a usurper who is basically responsible for the deaths of his nephews!!

I would love some information on the likes of Edward II, his death is a much bigger mystery to me than a short lived King who died during battle!! Or Richard II whose inabilities arguably led to the Wars of the Roses after his deposition!! Granted the two of them are buried in churches but it doesn't mean it can't be done!!

Granted, the Queen won't allow the mystery of the Princes in the Tower to attempt to be solved so I doubt she will appreciate other mapping or autopsies!! I see it personally like mystery of King Tut!!
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Re: British Monarchy

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:26 pm

He is one of he most controversial kings with a lot of mystery about him, his death led to the end of one era and the start of another, there was a major play about him that become very famous and there is a society based on him. Thus the interest.

Plus his body was recently found and it is a chance to, without seeking all sorts of permission, to find out more about him in an easier manner.
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