The "VS" Thread

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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby XuSheng » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:49 am

Aygor wrote:
XuSheng wrote:I'm always wondering wich Daimyos were the best during the Sengoku Period.

We all know that Nobunaga Oda, Hideyoshi Toyotomi, Ieyasu Tokugawa, Uesugi Kenshin and Shingen Takeda were the best(Even do i hate Hideyoshi and Ieyasu), but after them who would you rate higher between :

-Chosokabe Motochika
-Mori Motonari
-Hojo Ujiyasu
-Shimazu Yoshihiro
-Date Masamune

Date Masamune, definitely.
Just curious, why did you list your top 5 name-surname and the other 5 surname-name?


Sorry i didn't pay attention for the name-surname !

Between the Hojo, the Mori, the Chosokabe and the Shimazu who would you put higher ?
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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby Tigger of Kai » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:48 am

Do I detect a Shogun 2 enthusiast? I would say Shimazu, because it's the only one that remained alive long enough to be in the expansion pack!
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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby Cao Chao » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:26 am

Pah, forget them Daimyo with large fiefs. If all things were equal, my money would be on Sanada Masayuki.
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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby XuSheng » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:32 am

Tigger of Kai wrote:Do I detect a Shogun 2 enthusiast? I would say Shimazu, because it's the only one that remained alive long enough to be in the expansion pack!


Samurai Warriors made me fell in love with the Sengoku Jidai.
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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:10 pm

Want to revisit something. And I've scoured their wikis. I just want a proper assessment.

Li Shimin vs Zhu Yuanzhang (battle, let's say they have half of China each)

I feel like I'm underestimating one of these guys.
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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby Cao Chao » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:57 am

The war between the two would hinge heavily on who they would have as their subordinates. For Li Shimin, you have the likes of Li Jing, Li Shiji, Xue Rengui, among others. Zhu Yuanzhang had individuals like Xu Da, Chang Yuchun, Lan Yu, and others. At their mutual peaks, it'll be difficult to see who would win.

The winner would also be highly dependent on the technology available. Two of Zhu Yuanzhang's most capable subordinates, Liu Ji/Bowen and Jiao Yu were famed for their use of gunpowder in warfare, especially the use of the fire lance.

Also, the location of the decisive battle would be an important decider of the war. Zhu Yuanzhang's most famous victory was on the waters of Lake Poyang, while most of Li Shimin's campaigns were primarily land-based.

Beyond that, what time frame are we talking about? Li Shimin for a significant part of his life was under his father, Li Yuan. Both individuals became quite a bit unhinged in their later lives - Zhu Yuanzhang with the execution of a significant number of his ranking generals, while Li Shimin's obsession with Yeon Gaesomun led to a series of disastrous campaigns into Korea.
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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby Aygor » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:39 am

XuSheng wrote:
Aygor wrote:
XuSheng wrote:I'm always wondering wich Daimyos were the best during the Sengoku Period.

We all know that Nobunaga Oda, Hideyoshi Toyotomi, Ieyasu Tokugawa, Uesugi Kenshin and Shingen Takeda were the best(Even do i hate Hideyoshi and Ieyasu), but after them who would you rate higher between :

-Chosokabe Motochika
-Mori Motonari
-Hojo Ujiyasu
-Shimazu Yoshihiro
-Date Masamune

Date Masamune, definitely.
Just curious, why did you list your top 5 name-surname and the other 5 surname-name?


Between the Hojo, the Mori, the Chosokabe and the Shimazu who would you put higher ?

I am not into Sengoku Jidai enough to give you a thought opinion, I would probably lean towards the Hojo.
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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:45 am

Cao Chao wrote:The war between the two would hinge heavily on who they would have as their subordinates. For Li Shimin, you have the likes of Li Jing, Li Shiji, Xue Rengui, among others. Zhu Yuanzhang had individuals like Xu Da, Chang Yuchun, Lan Yu, and others. At their mutual peaks, it'll be difficult to see who would win.

The winner would also be highly dependent on the technology available. Two of Zhu Yuanzhang's most capable subordinates, Liu Ji/Bowen and Jiao Yu were famed for their use of gunpowder in warfare, especially the use of the fire lance.

Also, the location of the decisive battle would be an important decider of the war. Zhu Yuanzhang's most famous victory was on the waters of Lake Poyang, while most of Li Shimin's campaigns were primarily land-based.

Beyond that, what time frame are we talking about? Li Shimin for a significant part of his life was under his father, Li Yuan. Both individuals became quite a bit unhinged in their later lives - Zhu Yuanzhang with the execution of a significant number of his ranking generals, while Li Shimin's obsession with Yeon Gaesomun led to a series of disastrous campaigns into Korea.


Hmm...very good analysis and thank you, but I guess what I was trying to get at was who was the better individual commander. I should have set up the situation so they both have an equal number of troops they are leading, and subordinates that are similar in ability.
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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby Cao Chao » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:54 pm

Hmm...very good analysis and thank you, but I guess what I was trying to get at was who was the better individual commander. I should have set up the situation so they both have an equal number of troops they are leading, and subordinates that are similar in ability.

If it was one battle to decide the fate of China with all things equal, I'd put more money on Li Shimin than on Zhu Yuanzhang. I'd say that Li Shimin would have a better shot. Much of the campaigns that Zhu Yuanzhang personally led and fought in were in the early stages when he rose from a soldier to a ranking commander in the Red Turban Rebellion. His record of big battles isn't particularly that impressive, outside of Lake Poyang (and even that battle was won by a stratagem of Liu Ji/Bowen and ultimately won when one of Zhu Yuanzhang's commanders relieved the siege of Nanchang). Li Shimin, on the other hand, personally led and fought most of the major battles that ultimately helped found the Tang Dynasty, including the Battle of Hulao.

Just as a side note, if you want to compare a list of all Chinese Emperors and see who would win, my money would be on Liu Xiu, Emperor Guangwu of Han.
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Re: The "VS" Thread

Unread postby Tien Lung » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:47 pm

Sun Tzu V.S Kong Ming!!!
FIGHT!!

(With thousands of men on both sides).
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