Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Discuss historical events and information concerning any culture, time, or location in our world (or even the frontier beyond).

Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby Vitruvius » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:39 am

Candidates:
Bai Qi (Famous Qin general who conquered 73 cities, never lost a battle)
Xiang Ji (Chu king of Chu-Han contention, known to pull off miraculous victories despite being outnumbered 10:1)
Han Xin (Han strategist/general who masterminded the fall of Qin and defeat of Xiang Ji)
Huo Qubing (Han general famous for his bold tactics and the routing of Xiongnu armies)
Cao Cao

I haven't read much about the later dynasties. Feel free to throw in more names.
Vitruvius
Student
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:25 am

Bai Qi pretty much sums up much in regard to your question --

I'll mention one right here --
Zhang Yi, strategist who pretty much put in masterminded the strategy that ended the unity of the pre-Qin era and ushered in the QIn Dynasty.
Avatar: N/A

[No comment]
User avatar
Zhuanyong
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:58 pm
Location: If I told you, would it really matter?

Re: Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby fukarming » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:09 am

If you are talking about military commander, Zhang Yi won't be one. He is more a strategist (like you said). Zhang Yi is more the "behind the scene" kind of guy. He won't lead an army to victory but his action will cause his states' army to win.

I think Yue Fei http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue_Fei can be consider one of the greatest in ancient China. But like other ancient Chinese figure, too much fictional stories is put into their life that I am no longer sure if what I (people) know is actually 100% true.

I actually will not consider Cao Cao to be one of the greatest. While he is capable he got into way too many trouble (Zhang Xiu, Chi Bi...etc)

At the end. I think "Greatest military commander" is difficult to define: Do you consider a person who win every single battle, against a single enemy "better" than someone who lose a couple battle in their life, but also pull off some incredible victory?
They came first for sharks fin,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sharks fin.
Then they came for foie gras,I didn't speak up because I don't eat foie gras.
Then they came for me and force me to be a vegan by that time no one was left to speak up.
fukarming
Initiate
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:42 am

Re: Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:01 pm

I knew he was a strategist when I posted that. I wanted to make mention of someone who I believe to have had an equal standing in success as a military commander would have. Though he may have been behind the scenes, he was able to shape battles and campaigns without actually being on the battlefield.

Yue Fei seems to have been an awesome military commander in his own right.
Avatar: N/A

[No comment]
User avatar
Zhuanyong
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:58 pm
Location: If I told you, would it really matter?

Re: Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby Jordan » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:57 am

Bai Qi probably wins. I kind of thought Zhang Han was pretty impressive when I read about him though. He was probably the best Qin officer in Qin's later years, which I guess isn't saying very much. Overall I suppose he doesn't match up with Bai Qi, Han Xin and Xiang Yu.

How about Sun Bin?
User avatar
Jordan
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5884
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:52 am

Re: Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby Jebusrocks » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:36 am

Would u consider Guo Ziyi to be ancient? If, so I'd have to go with him. He may not have conquered the most cities like Bai Qi, but him, as well as Han Xin, fought with minimum resources they had available for their empires.
It is curious that the Americans, who calculate so carefully on the possibilities of military victory, do not realize that in the process they are incurring deep psychological and political defeat.
User avatar
Jebusrocks
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:22 am

Re: Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:48 pm

Jebusrocks wrote:Would u consider Guo Ziyi to be ancient? If, so I'd have to go with him. He may not have conquered the most cities like Bai Qi, but him, as well as Han Xin, fought with minimum resources they had available for their empires.


Guo Ziyi was truly formidable but, it is hard to deny the 'best' title being bestowed on Bai Qi. He not only conquered 73 cities but, he did so in undefeatable fashion. If he wasn't forced to commit suicide, he may have conquered over 100 cities.

In that regard, he may have been deified as a God of Destruction or something. Not that I would agree with it, but I could see something like that happening based on the historics of how others were deified.
Avatar: N/A

[No comment]
User avatar
Zhuanyong
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:58 pm
Location: If I told you, would it really matter?

Re: Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby Human5 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:32 am

i'm pretty sure it has to be somebody living during han wu di's reign.

or in the three kingdoms...
Human5
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1336
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:58 pm

Re: Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby TooMuchBaijiu » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:38 am

I have no problem nominating Bai Qi as the period's greatest commander. The man was a walking Holocaust. To compare, consider his almost-contemporaries Alexander and Hannibal, the greatest and second greatest generals of Western antiquity. Those men, combined, inflicted about 500,000 casualties. Bai managed to almost equal that in a single battle. Now, being a mass murderer doesn't a good general make, but his victories at Yique and Changping show Bai to be a master at waging Battles of Annihilation; he would go out and destroy your army, your national morale, your will to resist, and force your country to live out the rest of its pathetic existence as an emaciated, deserted cripple before he finally decides to end your misery.

I'd rather put my army up against Alexander or Hannibal any day. At least they won't bury me alive.
I don't write fanfic, but if I did it would involve Zhou Yu and Zheng He fighting to win the heart of Lai Choi San. Then I'd make them join forces to fight Ming the Merciless, who secretly works for Master Li. I'd squeeze Lu Bu in there somehow.
User avatar
TooMuchBaijiu
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1469
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:15 am
Location: In 1939, chasing Frida Kahlo with a Gillette

Re: Greatest Military Commander of Ancient China?

Unread postby Jebusrocks » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:58 am

Guo Ziyi was truly formidable but, it is hard to deny the 'best' title being bestowed on Bai Qi. He not only conquered 73 cities but, he did so in undefeatable fashion. If he wasn't forced to commit suicide, he may have conquered over 100 cities.

I would agree if the subject was who was the most 'successful' general in Ancient China, but it is not. A great military commander, imo, is not about who conquers the most or who killed the most men, I find that argument quite dumb tbh, because in that scenario someone like Tommy Franks would probably be ranked as the greatest general in military history.

Bai Qi led a war of brutality and force, he flooded his enemies with armies of massive numbers and overwhelmed them. The battle of Yique was no Cannae, and the Battle of Changping definitely was not Alesia. Though Bai Qi's accomplishments definitely show prowess, it was done brutally and forcefully, not genuinely, like Han Xin would.

I highly doubt Bai Qi would have gone further, because he knew his tactics were no longer effective against combined, UNIFIED forces, and thus the reason why he opted out of further military campaigning.
It is curious that the Americans, who calculate so carefully on the possibilities of military victory, do not realize that in the process they are incurring deep psychological and political defeat.
User avatar
Jebusrocks
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:22 am

Next

Return to World History Deliberation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved