The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby agga » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:17 pm

fukarming wrote:Well even if you take the lowest agreeable number (1-2 million?), the nazi are still plenty evil. I still don't see why we care on this debate.


dajiangjun hasn't made it explicit, preferring insinuation and to let his sources speak for him (though he each time distances himself from whatever we might find conspiratorial or naziesque), but i think we can piece together his belief: the holocaust is a fraud perpetuated by jewish media to protect israel and jewish financial overlords from negative criticism (or something like that). he's not just saying the numbers are off, or even that its memory is abused for political gain, both of which anyone might agree with critically, but that the historicity of the holocaust is a fraud. this is why we were arguing with him.
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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby fukarming » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:02 am

agga wrote:
fukarming wrote:Well even if you take the lowest agreeable number (1-2 million?), the nazi are still plenty evil. I still don't see why we care on this debate.


dajiangjun hasn't made it explicit, preferring insinuation and to let his sources speak for him (though he each time distances himself from whatever we might find conspiratorial or naziesque), but i think we can piece together his belief: the holocaust is a fraud perpetuated by jewish media to protect israel and jewish financial overlords from negative criticism (or something like that). he's not just saying the numbers are off, or even that its memory is abused for political gain, both of which anyone might agree with critically, but that the historicity of the holocaust is a fraud. this is why we were arguing with him.


I think whether holocaust is real or not, and whether Jewish media/financial overlords milk it to their benefit are two separate questions, isn't it?

I personally believe holocaust is real, 6 millions Jews are killed under the Nazi regime. Jews suffer alot during WWII. However, I also believe that the Jews play their victims card and milk it to their benefits (Anyone who dare to be on the opposite side of Jewish, they are branded as neo-Nazi and stuff)
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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby agga » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:44 pm

fukarming wrote:I think whether holocaust is real or not, and whether Jewish media/financial overlords milk it to their benefit are two separate questions, isn't it?


sorry, i thought this was my point.

fukarming wrote:I personally believe holocaust is real, 6 millions Jews are killed under the Nazi regime. Jews suffer alot during WWII. However, I also believe that the Jews play their victims card and milk it to their benefits (Anyone who dare to be on the opposite side of Jewish, they are branded as neo-Nazi and stuff)


this is reasonable. we can then argue about numbers (and politics).
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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby agga » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:45 am

some fine comments from Fidel Castro on Israel, Iran, anti-Semitism, and the Holocaust
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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby James » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:22 pm

agga wrote:some fine comments from Fidel Castro on Israel, Iran, anti-Semitism, and the Holocaust

Good read.
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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:15 am

It's a testament to the difficult nature of politics when many leaders you disagree with vehemently during their reign become so much more reasonable once they're no longer under the stress of power.
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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:30 am

Crazedmongoose wrote:It's a testament to the difficult nature of politics when many leaders you disagree with vehemently during their reign become so much more reasonable once they're no longer under the stress of power.


True enough. I think we often forget how completely confounding Castro was in his early years - his initial cause was certainly just (liberating Cuba from the Batista regime and allowing Cubans to have autonomy over their own domestic agricultural production), but after he turned to Khrushchev his behaviour became not only more radical, but also from an outside view inconsistent and even irrational. The missile crisis is one example. At first, Castro and the Cuban government were incredibly leery of having the missiles installed and suspected the Soviets were using them as geopolitical pawns (which they were), but then Castro went into a rage over Khrushchev's removal of the missiles once he'd struck the deal with Kennedy to do so. One might interpret the Cubans as acting in good faith toward the Soviets, but that doesn't jive with their early opposition to the missile placements.

That said, I also agree fully with what Castro's saying here.
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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby SunXia » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:48 am

Wow, that was a pretty awesome article in its self, I hope that it is very accurate in it's portrayal of Fidel Castro!!

It is always interesting to look into the mind of those small percentages of people that have been chosen by fate to rule over us that make up the masses!! I also find it interesting that, even somebody who was so extremist in his views, to actually speak out for people that aren't his own!! And in a way, he is right about the Jewish over the many centuries!!

I do not understand how people can deny the Haulocaust, regardless of the numbers of those that died, if they were blown out of proportion or not!! It remains that these people were gradually persecuted because of their religion, because of who they were!! Germany was not alone in its Anti-Semitism over the years but the Nazis took it to such extremes it is unfathomable!! It remains that these people were suppressed, rounded up into camps of such meagre conditions that I wouldn't even allow a dog to live like that!! If people are imprisoned wrongfully these days, everyone jumps on the bandwagon to get them released and to fight for recognition and apologies for that wrong doing in error!! The Nazis rounded up these people for no wrong doings, for nothing and imprisoned them and murdered many of them!!

I would never deny the Haulocaust but neither would I put the blame on those that currently live in Germany!! Every country has a past they are not proud of and those misendeavors, while should be remembered in moving our world forward, should not be held against those that now have no power to change!! Also, I shan't forget those other minorities that were also persecuted like the disabled and other such groups that were gassed and things!!

But well done Fidel!!
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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:11 pm

I know the last post for this thread was about a month ago but, the link to the comments made by Castro posted by agga is an awesome read if there are any new members that missed this.

I also believe this is revisitable material for some of the issues we have been discussing in the Nuclear Disarmament thread http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21155&start=0.

Though much late, kudos for the post agga.
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Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby James » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:14 pm

No harm at all in reviving a dormant thread when you've got something to add. :)
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