The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Discuss historical events and information concerning any culture, time, or location in our world (or even the frontier beyond).

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby dajiangjun » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:50 pm

Q. Research whom owns the national news media?

A. “The U.S. media landscape is dominated by massive corporations that, through a history of mergers and acquisitions, have concentrated their control over what we see, hear and read. In many cases, these giant companies are vertically integrated, controlling everything from initial production to final distribution. Here is information about the largest U.S. media firms.” http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart/main

Who are these media giants?

General Electric - CEO, Jeffrey R. Immelt
Walt Disney - CEO Robert Iger
News Corp – CEO Rupert Murdoch ( Jewish mother – Elisabeth Joy Greene ),
President of News – Corp Peter Chernin, President Fox News – Roger Ailes
Time Warner - CEO Jeffrey Bewkes
Viacom – CEO Sumner Redstone (aka Murray Rothstein)
CBS – CEO Leslie Moonves – all are Jewish

Q. Research who runs the Federal Reserve and what three new members were just selected by Obama?

A. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. His predecessors Alan Greenspan and Paul Volker.
Federal Reserve Vice Chairman Don Kohn, Board of Governors -Kevin M.Warsh, Frederic Mishkin
April 29th, 2010 Obama named three more to the Federal Reserve:
Janet Yellen as Vice Chairman, Peter Diamond and Sarah Bloom Raskin as general members – all are Jewish.

Federal Reserve District Bank Presidents:
- Eric S. Rosengren – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Boston
- Charles I. Plosser – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia
- Jeffrey M. Lacker – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond
- James B. Bullard – President, Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
- Gary H. Stern– President, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis
- Thomas M. Hoenig – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City
- Richard W. Fisher– President, Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas
- Janet L. Yellen – President, Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco - all are Jewish.

Q. Research whom owns and runs Goldman Sachs?

A. Goldman Sachs – Chairman & CEO – Lloyd Blankfein, President & COO – Gary D. Kohn, Vice Chairman – John S. Weinberg,
Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer - David A. Viniar, Executive Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary of the Corporation -Esta E. Stecher, Executive Vice President and Global Head of Compliance - Alan M. Cohen - all are Jewish.

Q. Research whom makes up the US Treasury Department?

A. Treasury Secretary -Timothy Geithner, Under Secretary of the Treasury – Brainard Lael, Chief Adviser to the Treasury – Ron Bloom, Deputy Secretary to the Treasury – Neal Wolin, Special Inspector General – Neil Barofsky, Assistant Treasury Secretary – David S. Cohen, Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence - Stuart A. Levey, Director Financial Crimes Enforcement – James H. Freis Jr, Pay Czar – Kenneth Feinberg, Budget Director – Peter Orzag, Chief Economic Advisor – Larry Summers, Chief Economist and Economic Policy Adviser to the Vice President - Jared Bernstein, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Counselor to the Secretary – Matthew Kabaker, Counselors to the Secretary -Lewis Alexander, Lee Sachs, Jake Siewert, Gene Sperling, Economic Advisor – Robert Reich, Economic Advisor – Robert Rubin, Chair of Securities and Exchange Commission – Mary Shapiro, Chair of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission – Gary Gensler, White House Budget Chief – Jacob Lew – all are Jewish.

Our political parties no longer represent America. They are both sides of the
same coin.

Q. Look who runs and funds the two primary political parties?

A. In 2006 the Republican Party was run by Ken Mehlman, the Democratic Party by Rahm Emanuel – both Jewish

Here is some more, read the notes at the bottom-

http://theinfounderground.com/forum/vie ... =7&t=10905
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/vie ... =7&t=10903
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/vie ... =7&t=10909
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/vie ... =7&t=10907
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/vie ... =7&t=10912
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/vie ... =7&t=10906
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/vie ... =8&t=10934
User avatar
dajiangjun
Initiate
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:18 am

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby agga » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:18 pm

dajiangjun wrote:(...many Jews in important positions...)

One must ask oneself how this is possible.


secular jewish culture values secular education and achievement very highly - compare with english and german cultures, for example, which don't have so much esteem for high acheivement, and which value commonality and ordinary occupations. in fact, one can find a lot of disdain for higher education in the common culture of, e.g., white america. there's not much disdain for education in common jewish culture. this is why so many of the most important intellectual characters of the late 19th and throughout the 20th century were jews - as european culture became more and more secular, there were no more legitimate reasons to bar religious/ethnic minorities from public participation in common endeavors.

there are/were so many important jewish bankers and media moguls for the same basic reasons that there are/were so many great jewish scientists, lawyers, doctors - a culture that strongly values demanding, highly respectable and high-profile careers that require higher education. and the long historical association of jews in europe with banking is well known, and is in large part a result of the way in which stigmatized professions were associated with stigmatized groups in the medieval european caste system. should we be worried for some reason that jews are so disproportionately represented in the development of modern physics? i don't think so, and neither do i think we should be worried that jews are disproportionately represented in the ranks of bankers or movie executives.

dajiangjun wrote:My opinion of political Zionism is that it is a destructive force in the world


what has Zionism destroyed? it led to the creation of the most advanced and modern, and free and democratic, state in the middle east. the fact that this state is fringed with ethnic warfare and apartheid is an obvious problem, but "Zionism" can hardly be held entirely responsible for this - French and British interference in arab affairs, arab disunity in general, islamic fundamentalism, etc., all share the blame.

at any rate, your overall implication by giving us these lists isn't clear. do you think that a "holocaust fraud" is being perpetuated by jewish media moguls to protect jewish bankers from prosecution?
造反有理!
User avatar
agga
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1079
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:45 pm

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:13 pm

agga wrote:secular jewish culture values secular education and achievement very highly - compare with english and german cultures, for example, which don't have so much esteem for high acheivement, and which value commonality and ordinary occupations. in fact, one can find a lot of disdain for higher education in the common culture of, e.g., white america. there's not much disdain for education in common jewish culture.


This tendency goes pretty far back, too. Religious Judaism has its immediate roots in the reform movements against the Second Temple in the 1st century CE, and it placed a great deal of emphasis on scholarship and knowledge of religious law, in order to extend the benefits of the law to the common man (rather than just to the Romanised elites). Combined with the fact that during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, Jews tended to be relegated to towns rather than to rural areas, it is little wonder that the Jews adapted easily to a culture that had changed to accommodate the professional classes.

agga wrote:what has Zionism destroyed? it led to the creation of the most advanced and modern, and free and democratic, state in the middle east.


Ehhh. I feel obliged to disagree with you somewhat on this one. I agree that Zionism is not an inherently destructive phenomenon, but at the same time Israel is not the sole beacon of freedom, democracy and modernity in the Middle East. Turkey remains a highly substantive rival for that title in spite of its human rights problems, which on balance are no more grievous than Israel's. The Gulf states, however, are certainly corrupt and authoritarian to amazing degrees.

What I'd like to see within modern Zionism, though, is a little less knee-jerk defence of everything Israel says and does, and a little more introspection with regard to its own highly-enlightened history. The original Zionists (Hess and Herzl) were very much in favour of creating a cosmopolitan multinational society based on the rule of law, organised according to the egalitarian principles of Judaism but open to both Jews and non-Jews. Certain trends within Israel seem to be moving the Zionist project away from its original goals in ways which are not sustainable (the current situation allows for grievous poisonous inequalities between Israelis and Palestinians, and responds to the resentment that arouses with brutal and disproportionate force). IMHO, Israel ought to ensure its long-term survival by living up to some of its early promises.
Some more blood, Chekov. The needle won't hurt, Chekov. Take off your shirt, Chekov. Roll over, Chekov. Breathe deeply, Chekov. Blood sample, Chekov! Marrow sample, Chekov! Skin sample, Chekov! If I live long enough... I'm going to run out of samples.
User avatar
WeiWenDi
Hedgehog Emperor
 
Posts: 3855
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:09 am
Location: L'Étoile du Nord

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby dajiangjun » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:14 pm

agga wrote:
dajiangjun wrote:(...many Jews in important positions...)

One must ask oneself how this is possible.


secular jewish culture values secular education and achievement very highly - compare with english and german cultures, for example, which don't have so much esteem for high acheivement, and which value commonality and ordinary occupations. in fact, one can find a lot of disdain for higher education in the common culture of, e.g., white america.


I am sorry, but this statement is ridiculous. English and German cultures were well-known for their emphasis on high achievements and hard-work. Why not take a look at British and German influences in science, medicine, technology, art, music, and philosophy? The British, French, Germans, and Italians collectively are responsible for the vast majority of Europe's advancements into the modern era. Ever hear of Euler, Gauss, Newton, Shakespeare, Darwin, Bach, Kepler, Nietzsche, Hegel, Mozart, Beethoven, Leibniz, Karl Benz, Locke, Hume, Wagner, Goethe, Konrad Zuse, Schiller, Rutherford, Cavendish, Faraday, Albrecht Duerer, Edison, Scheele, Charles Lyell, Robert Koch etc etc? Of course the English and Germans will fill more common occupations like carpenter, farmer, soldier and blacksmith; they have higher populations than the Jews because they represent the host populations of their native countries.

Up until the late 19th and early 20th century, Jews were relatively unrepresented in these fields (though they have always been shrewd merchants, bankers, and usurers), and the social and educational systems that fostered so many Jewish intellectuals and scientists was built by European gentiles. Up until the 19th century the only major significant Jewish figures that could be considered as to have been revolutionary and influential are Montaigne and Spinoza, and until that time there was not one Jewish artist, scientist, physician, or inventor of any note. I can think of two writers (Hans Sachs and Fernando Rojas), one composer (Salmone Rossi), and one mathematician (Guldin.) I admit as much as anyone else that Jews became disproportionately represented in science and Nobel prizes in the first half of the 20th century, that they are an intelligent people who place emphasis on achievement, but to say that English and Germans are anti-intellectual and emphasize commonality and that this is the reason the Jews are completely dominating American politics, media, and education is ridiculous. Even further to say that it is OK for such a small group to have so much power and influence is just plain wrong. The reason there is Jewish domination is because of money, media (thus propaganda), voracious ethnocentrism, and unbridled nepotism. Though I will also agree that modern white America is often times anti-intellectual, but this has a variety of roots that cannot all be explained here.

I think we underestimate the amount of power that is in this elite groups hands, especially when it comes to propaganda. Television may be the most powerful weapon of propaganda in the history of humanity. And when stuff like this happens in our media, I think we should be worried-

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e21744.htm
User avatar
dajiangjun
Initiate
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:18 am

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby James » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:46 pm

What agga said could have been worded better, but he hit the nail on the head. The Jewish culture values and emphasizes achievement, high goals (especially in terms of academics and career) well beyond any other I can imagine. They certainly go far and above beyond other general white/Germanic cultures.* This is the fundamental reason why Jewish folk tend to hold positions of authority and education. You will find that these positions will nearly aways correspond with some kick-ass education.

*This is where agga could have worded things better. I agree completely that, say, the Germans have a culture of high-standards, high-goals, and hard work, and to suggest otherwise would be disingenuous. But there are other cultures that place a stronger emphasis on these things, and I would also suggest that the culture which places the greatest emphasis on these things is the Jewish culture. It is saturated through nearly every aspect of how they live their lives. The typical American doesn't offer much competition, that's for sure.

P.S. You can drop the biased sources defaming Israel and Jewish culture.
I think we understand quite well at this point your perspective on these matters.
Kongming’s Archives – Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel, History and Games
“ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
  — Ben Franklin
User avatar
James
Sausaged Fish
Sausaged Fish
 
Posts: 17999
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:21 pm
Location: Happy Valley, UT

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby agga » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:52 pm

James wrote:They certainly go far and above beyond other general white/Germanic cultures.*
*This is where agga could have worded things better. I agree completely that, say, the Germans have a culture of high-standards, high-goals, and hard work, and to suggest otherwise would be disingenuous.


i should have stated something like "my cultural background", which is basically white american descended from germans and english, but i felt like it was a fair generalization to make (pretty ad hoc i admit).. valuing hard work and high educational attainment aren't the same thing, that's what i meant, and i think it's true. gauss and mozart aren't meaningful counter-examples to what i was trying to say.
造反有理!
User avatar
agga
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1079
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:45 pm

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby James » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:01 pm

agga wrote:i should have stated something like "my cultural background", which is basically white american descended from germans and english, but i felt like it was a fair generalization to make.. valuing hard work and high educational attainment aren't the same thing, that's what i meant, and i think it's true. gauss and mozart aren't meaningful counter-examples to what i was trying to say.

I actually knew what you meant because we both share that 'cultural background'. It was just too open to misinterpretation. I agree with you 100% on that, by the way. Our 'cultural background' doesn't even compare in terms of this emphasis except in the case of established families, social groups, and certain areas/sub-classes.
Kongming’s Archives – Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel, History and Games
“ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
  — Ben Franklin
User avatar
James
Sausaged Fish
Sausaged Fish
 
Posts: 17999
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:21 pm
Location: Happy Valley, UT

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby dajiangjun » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:41 pm

James wrote:What agga said could have been worded better, but he hit the nail on the head. The Jewish culture values and emphasizes achievement, high goals (especially in terms of academics and career) well beyond any other I can imagine. They certainly go far and above beyond other general white/Germanic cultures.* This is the fundamental reason why Jewish folk tend to hold positions of authority and education. You will find that these positions will nearly aways correspond with some kick-ass education.

*This is where agga could have worded things better. I agree completely that, say, the Germans have a culture of high-standards, high-goals, and hard work, and to suggest otherwise would be disingenuous. But there are other cultures that place a stronger emphasis on these things, and I would also suggest that the culture which places the greatest emphasis on these things is the Jewish culture. It is saturated through nearly every aspect of how they live their lives. The typical American doesn't offer much competition, that's for sure.

P.S. You can drop the biased sources defaming Israel and Jewish culture.
I think we understand quite well at this point your perspective on these matters.


I seriously think I feel ill reading this comment. Jews go far above and beyond white/Germanic cultures? Since when does any ethnic group have claim to being number one for a culture of achievement? Should I make the claim that African-Americans go far and beyond any other group for criminality, anti-intellectualism, and under-achievement? No, because that would be racist and not true, just as your claim is quasi-racist and not true. Jews are a product of the white/Germanic world, without their Gentile predecessors and educational systems offered by whites/Germanics, and without the social climate offered by these people,the Jews would have never risen to the heights they have now. As I have also pointed out, Jews did not start achieving such great heights until fairly recently in history. I also feel sad that someone could honestly think that the reason Jews have a startling monopoly over all these influential sectors of society is solely due to their education and culture of achievement. The chances that all of those positions would be all occupied only by Jews is infinitesimally small and one cannot believe, unless you are a complete drone, that its just because they are smart, ambitious, and lucky.

These sources are not biased, it does not defame Jewish culture as there are other Jews also support these claims (such as the Haredi I posted earlier or Jews like Norman Finkelstein), and you can cross-reference nearly all the information with wikipedia. You do not have to hate Jews to be against Israeli policy and their domination of America politics and media. Did you or anyone even read the information or watch the videos, or shall we all continue to simply parrot the politically-correct mantra of "Hurr...biased source...durr anti-Semite...hurr..racist?" I think I understand, as I should have from the beginning, that I am wasting my time discussing this. This is a serious case of burying our heads in the sand, putting our fingers in our years and yelling "LA LA LA LA I can't hear you."
User avatar
dajiangjun
Initiate
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:18 am

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby James » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:12 pm

It isn't racism—it is sincerity. Why the hell would I be racist against my own 'people'? I'm not afraid to call things as I see them, and that includes discussion of the African American incarceration rate, critical commentary about illegal immigrants, or any other subject where there are clear statistical trends. Back to Jewish culture, just as surely as a well-educated and successful family is more likely to produce a well-educated and capable child, the Jewish culture, in many cases, is quite similar but on a large scope. Many children in Jewish families, today, are raised with standards, expectations, and ideals, that other cultures just don't bother with. Education, importance and relevance of action, and achievement are emphasized each step of the way. I do not agree with it! I personally live by a philosophy of having a lot of fun in life, but as a result I'm not going to get a doctorate (or two).

Now, some arguments can be discussed about certain elements of the government being predominately Jewish. I acknowledge the possibility that there are areas where it is considered and I've thought about that in the past. But I see absolutely no evidence to indicate that there is some wide-spread conspiracy, or that Israel has its hand lodged up America's ass and is causing our cute little hands to jiggle about playing world affairs to their pleasure. That is simple conspiracy theory. As for your links, they're biased. You generally don't avoid that once content is tailored to produce a certain answer, rather than an answer concluded based on sincere study of all perspectives available. And much of this stuff goes well beyond that—you might as well tune in to Glenn Beck for a sincere explanation of Obama's goals. Or to Al Gore for a critical but well-researched and genuine outline of exactly what global warming is and what we do or do not know about it. And what's worst about this is that you originally came here calling Americans ignorant media-controlled fools, and now you're using extreme-end sources to present a view? I'm also noticing a trend of anti-Semitism in your views here. I'm not even sure how Israel got pulled into this discussion, front and center. It would be easier to swallow if you weren't preaching such extremes.
Kongming’s Archives – Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel, History and Games
“ They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
  — Ben Franklin
User avatar
James
Sausaged Fish
Sausaged Fish
 
Posts: 17999
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:21 pm
Location: Happy Valley, UT

Re: The Holocaust and Holocaust Denial

Unread postby WeiWenDi » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:59 pm

dajiangjun wrote:English and German cultures were well-known for their emphasis on high achievements and hard-work. Why not take a look at British and German influences in science, medicine, technology, art, music, and philosophy? The British, French, Germans, and Italians collectively are responsible for the vast majority of Europe's advancements into the modern era. Ever hear of Euler, Gauss, Newton, Shakespeare, Darwin, Bach, Kepler, Nietzsche, Hegel, Mozart, Beethoven, Leibniz, Karl Benz, Locke, Hume, Wagner, Goethe, Konrad Zuse, Schiller, Rutherford, Cavendish, Faraday, Albrecht Duerer, Edison, Scheele, Charles Lyell, Robert Koch etc etc?


dajiangjun wrote:Jews were relatively unrepresented in these fields (though they have always been shrewd merchants, bankers, and usurers), and the social and educational systems that fostered so many Jewish intellectuals and scientists was built by European gentiles. Up until the 19th century the only major significant Jewish figures that could be considered as to have been revolutionary and influential are Montaigne and Spinoza, and until that time there was not one Jewish artist, scientist, physician, or inventor of any note.


I smell a vicious double standard at work here. All of the above figures mentioned in 'Germanic' cultures were themselves products of modernity (the German idealists being a prime example). To be sure, there is absolutely no doubt that the Ashkenazim and the Sephardics also benefitted immensely from modernity, but to say that there have been no Jewish intellectuals prior to or contemporary with modernity is downright foolish. What about Maimonides? Hillel ben Samuel? As long as we're rattling off the names of German idealists like Schiller and Nietzsche, why not mention Maimon, Marx and Hess? Or if we're holding up Beethoven, Mozart and Wagner, why not mention Mendelssohn in the same breath?

If one examines the sociology of European Jewry prior to modernity, one will inevitably find that their systems of thought and cultural expression were necessarily self-contained - Jews were discriminated against in all other forms of society but their own on account of religism. Within their own society, the means of gaining respect was education, particularly religious education - without it, their culture and society would have been starved out or assimilated into European Christendom. Legal Jewish emancipation (another aspect of European modernity) eliminated this need for self-containment, and they gained access to the culture in ways which were not possible previously; that we are seeing a larger influence from Jews now is hardly due to nepotism or ethnocentrism in any meaningful sense. In a number of ways, Jewish thinkers have had an immense and positive impact on the culture: the Frankfurt School of critical theory, spearheaded by Theodor Adorno, Max Horkheimer and Herbert Marcuse, has added an entirely new dimension to political discourse and international relations theory (of which, though I was aware of it in undergrad, I am coming into a new appreciation now in grad school).

By contrast, Germanic cultures have historically valued military prowess over education - this was very evident in Late Antiquity and in the Middle Ages, when the most-respected members of society were feudal lords and their retainers, and the majority of cultural production (particularly in the late Middle Ages) was focussed around the ideals of chivalry and courtly love, both of which were considered military virtues. Literacy was rare throughout this period, and was generally relegated to the clergy and to servants of feudal lords who served as administrators. This changed, however, as the merchant class began tugging power away from the landed classes (hence, the Renaissance and the Scientific Revolution).
Some more blood, Chekov. The needle won't hurt, Chekov. Take off your shirt, Chekov. Roll over, Chekov. Breathe deeply, Chekov. Blood sample, Chekov! Marrow sample, Chekov! Skin sample, Chekov! If I live long enough... I'm going to run out of samples.
User avatar
WeiWenDi
Hedgehog Emperor
 
Posts: 3855
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:09 am
Location: L'Étoile du Nord

PreviousNext

Return to World History Deliberation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved