Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby devtherev » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:04 am

mrwongshappymushu wrote:Hey dev! Great to see you here :wink: :lol:


Fancy bumping into you here :lol:
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Thanks Dymlos Timbre and Slickslicer, I hope to find something interesting :D
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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby dymlos timbre » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:46 pm

No problem, Nvm on the source of muskets i found one! another good book you should check out is Japonius Tyrannus by Jereon Lamers.

Yea i play NA11 but it has some historical inaccuracies here and there over all it is a good portrayal, i just wish they had all the castles instead of a simplified version.

So whats everyone's favourite clan? mine would have to be the Oda.
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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby mrbeate » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:44 pm

I would say Date Clan. Mainly because of Masamune Date's fierce portrayals. Even though I am a Uesugi-Takeda enthusiasts.
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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby devtherev » Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:36 pm

I was quite a fan of the Shimazu, just because they were fun to play as in Shogun Total War. The thing that never really made sense to me was at some point Kenshin Uesugi sires an heir...named Masamune Date ^^; Then there's Nobunaga Oda with an heir called Hideyoshi Toyotomi...The game wasn't too realistic :lol: Either way my fave clan is the Shimazu.
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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby Tiger of Kai » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:36 pm

devtherev wrote:Sorry to break away from the thrilling discussion you chaps are having but may ask if there are any partculare books about the era which are a good read? I've tried to find some before but failed .-.



Some of my personal favorites:

Hideyoshi by Mary Elizabeth Berry
Weapons and Fighting Techniques of the Samurai Warrior by Thomas Conlan
Samurai, Warfare and the State by Karl Friday
Tokugawa Ieyasu: Shogun by Conrad Totman

Those are good starting points for anyone interested in gaining a better understanding of the period without needing too much prior knowledge on the subject.
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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:20 pm

My reflection on the Sengoku Era --

It was time in which great men rose to the occasion and fought for similar or common goals. Many of the names of the era are still remembered today whether in legend or history books i.e. Oda Nobunaga, Akechi MItsuhide, Tokugawa Ieyasu, Honda Tadakatsu.

A period of great warriors and battles still debated on today.

The era got to watch a man begin his quest to unite the land under his banner only to fall under the usurping of one of his subordinates (Oda-Akechi). Only to have another subordinate unite the land under his own banner. The era also showed a significant sign of the times. A significance of western culture beginning to be immersed into Japanese culture. The inception of the Japanese populace following the Christian religion.

A note to this would be that Oda Nobunaga also took an interest in the Christian missionaries. Some circles even claim that he became a Christian donning the European armor during his battles. But that is debatable.
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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby dymlos timbre » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:41 pm

There is nothing to debate about nobunaga becoming christian its completely False under every circumstance the man never even thought about it. The facts are not even there and the only proof is a missionary going back to Europe and claiming he converted witch back in those days it was easy to pull something like that out of your ass.

Nobunaga mainly saw the Benefit of conversing with the european's, the technology they could provide(witch he later improved upon and mass produced) and the new political power that came with using christians to incite anti christians that had ill will towards him. This is all later boosted by the fact that Europe SAW NOBUNAGA AS THE TRUE RULER OF JAPAN a title he would have been nothing but overjoyed to hear. He did have tolerance towards it, he did done european armor at times, he let missionaries debate with Monks, but he was in no shape or form a christian.
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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:23 pm

dymlos timbre wrote:There is nothing to debate about nobunaga becoming christian its completely False under every circumstance the man never even thought about it. The facts are not even there and the only proof is a missionary going back to Europe and claiming he converted witch back in those days it was easy to pull something like that out of your ass.

Nobunaga mainly saw the Benefit of conversing with the european's, the technology they could provide(witch he later improved upon and mass produced) and the new political power that came with using christians to incite anti christians that had ill will towards him. This is all later boosted by the fact that Europe SAW NOBUNAGA AS THE TRUE RULER OF JAPAN a title he would have been nothing but overjoyed to hear. He did have tolerance towards it, he did done european armor at times, he let missionaries debate with Monks, but he was in no shape or form a christian.


Did you read my post in full?

Some circles even claim that he became a Christian donning the European armor during his battles.


Some being the operative word -- I never claimed I believed this nor did I state I promoted it. I was making a statement about what others believe. Personally, I've read different writings on Nobunaga and his life and would find it hard to believe that he did. In other words, I don't believe he was Christian. However, I have read about his allowance of the such influences. What you typed is basically the same information that I've read regarding Nobunaga and his true relationship with Westerners. This is why it is a new paragraph in my post starting with the words 'a note' -- it is separate from my statement of opinion.

As for the debatable statement I made, I suppose your statement would be correct about it not being debatable in reality. The problem is is that everything is debatable when others are adamant about what they believe to the truth regardless of evidence in some cases. And I have run into and read such that would garner the statement that I made regarding this.
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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby dymlos timbre » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:36 pm

i know i did but when you said debatable i did not want anyone to get the idea of the possibility since it would be lies. i know you never claimed it but people out there think he was one and think its absolute fact when it is nothing but a lie and dramatization, sorry if it sounded like i was attacking you or something its just i have debated with people with such beliefs, i kinda took the end part of your statement a little to seriously due to past debates.

again sorry about that :lol:

but so leave something productive it is good to note that while nobunaga was not christian there have been numerous christian samurai who often hid it due to various diamyo outlawing it.
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Re: Sengoku Era Japan Thoughts

Unread postby Zhuanyong » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:22 pm

dymlos timbre wrote:i know i did but when you said debatable i did not want anyone to get the idea of the possibility since it would be lies. i know you never claimed it but people out there think he was one and think its absolute fact when it is nothing but a lie and dramatization, sorry if it sounded like i was attacking you or something its just i have debated with people with such beliefs, i kinda took the end part of your statement a little to seriously due to past debates.

again sorry about that :lol:

but so leave something productive it is good to note that while nobunaga was not christian there have been numerous christian samurai who often hid it due to various diamyo outlawing it.


No worries, though I thought 'whoa that came way out of left field' when I initially read it. But I couldn't tell if it was directed at me or generally about the thought.

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Another thing I found to be profound about the era was the rise of Toyotomi (Hashiba) Hideyoshi from rags to basically highest position in Japan. He was a nobody who became the somebody that united the land. Regardless of the path of conquest started by Oda, he was able to effectively bring together the land.

I always had a unique appreciation for what he accomplished. My first knowledge of Hideyoshi actually came from a loosely based on the era movie called 'Shogun's Ninja' in which the villain Shogen played by Sonny Chiba was the right-hand henchman to the 'evil' Hideyoshi.
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