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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:23 pm
by Kayzr
Samurai, of course!

Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:12 pm
by Shikanosuke
Xiahou Jia wrote:I think it's time to bring some fun :wink:
It was not uncommon to be a Ninja AND a Samurai.
For example, Hattori Hanzo Iwami-no Kami Masanari, who was the son of the famous Hattori Hanzo, was deprived of the title of the samurai and lost the command over Iga-gumi after he provoked the Iga-gumi rebellion and killed the servant of Ina Kumazo Tadatsugu (the governor of 8 provinces of Kanto).

Anyway, it's not really correct to choose one OR another. Despite the popular myths spread by very influential people nowdays, there was never ever any confrontation between ninjas and samurai only because of their so called "hatred" to each other. Even Nobunaga's campaign against Iga ninjas was only against those ninjas who were not his or Ieyasu's allies. The Koga ninjas allied with Ieyasu and use him in diplomatic talks with Nobunaga . In the end Nobunaga agreed and kept his promise and didn't touch them. Tarao Sirobei Mitsuhiro and Hori Hidemasa (two ninjas from Koga) were taking an active part in destroying Iga. Nobunaga WAS using ninjas but to less extend than any other daymyo.

I have to disagree with the post that the methods found in Ninjutsu originated outside Japan. The basic ideas - yes, but the methods were mostly developed by Hattori Hanzo, Saika Magoichi, Momochi Sandayu and some others.


So who was a ninja and a samurai?

I don't think there is a myth of hatred between samurai and ninja per se, but rather a general hatred toward ninjas. Where as samurai was a respected class of the upper nobility, ninjas were often vagabonds employed to do certain steal, kill, or gather information missions. Wether or not they were trained in ninjitsu or not, from my understanding of japaneese history, one could still be considered a ninja. Often these men werent trained, rather simply possessing the abilities to navigate quickly through terrain to deliver messages or skilled enough to put a straight sword/knife (versus the katana's curved edge as they are for different purposes) through someones back.

Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:43 am
by underoath8821
heh.. I would be samurai, but I would be currupt and use my skill for evil :twisted:

Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:26 am
by Pi Ka Chu
I had rather do things in stealth, that way I won't have live with people knowing what I have done.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:38 am
by Xiahou Jia
Shikanosuke wrote:
Xiahou Jia wrote:I think it's time to bring some fun :wink:
It was not uncommon to be a Ninja AND a Samurai.
For example, Hattori Hanzo Iwami-no Kami Masanari, who was the son of the famous Hattori Hanzo, was deprived of the title of the samurai and lost the command over Iga-gumi after he provoked the Iga-gumi rebellion and killed the servant of Ina Kumazo Tadatsugu (the governor of 8 provinces of Kanto).

Anyway, it's not really correct to choose one OR another. Despite the popular myths spread by very influential people nowdays, there was never ever any confrontation between ninjas and samurai only because of their so called "hatred" to each other. Even Nobunaga's campaign against Iga ninjas was only against those ninjas who were not his or Ieyasu's allies. The Koga ninjas allied with Ieyasu and use him in diplomatic talks with Nobunaga . In the end Nobunaga agreed and kept his promise and didn't touch them. Tarao Sirobei Mitsuhiro and Hori Hidemasa (two ninjas from Koga) were taking an active part in destroying Iga. Nobunaga WAS using ninjas but to less extend than any other daymyo.

I have to disagree with the post that the methods found in Ninjutsu originated outside Japan. The basic ideas - yes, but the methods were mostly developed by Hattori Hanzo, Saika Magoichi, Momochi Sandayu and some others.


So who was a ninja and a samurai?

I don't think there is a myth of hatred between samurai and ninja per se, but rather a general hatred toward ninjas. Where as samurai was a respected class of the upper nobility, ninjas were often vagabonds employed to do certain steal, kill, or gather information missions. Wether or not they were trained in ninjitsu or not, from my understanding of japaneese history, one could still be considered a ninja. Often these men werent trained, rather simply possessing the abilities to navigate quickly through terrain to deliver messages or skilled enough to put a straight sword/knife (versus the katana's curved edge as they are for different purposes) through someones back.


1. The most succesfull ninjas who were employed by Ieyasu Tokugawa were usually rewarded with the titles of samurai.
2. There was never found a single STRAIGHT ninja sword. Yes, they were short but it was Hollywood and "modern ninjas" who made them straight. The are only two museums in Japan that are historically accurate (the museum of Ninjutsu in Iga Ueno and ninja-yasiki in Konan) and there are NO STRAIGHT SWORDS there. Not a single one. The straight sword is just another popular myth.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:20 am
by Davey Vengeance
I would have to choose the honourable life of a samurai over the hidden covert life of a ninja. In a time where honour was rewarded I'd rather be at war than sneaking around spying and stabbing people in the back. Also I am not exactly lightfooted so being a warrior would be an obvious choice. I think its far more honourable to face and enemy on the Battlefield than kill them in there sleep.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:24 am
by SunXia
I think it would be cool to be a ninja, and being really stealthy but like Davey, I'm very heavy-footed, (believe me I've been compared to a herd of Elephants in my time) so I guess I'd be a Samurai, if I was allowed to be of course!!

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:39 am
by Davey Vengeance
SunXia wrote:I think it would be cool to be a ninja, and being really stealthy but like Davey, I'm very heavy-footed, (believe me I've been compared to a herd of Elephants in my time) so I guess I'd be a Samurai, if I was allowed to be of course!!


Was there ever such a thing as a Lady Samurai? I mean the ninja's had Kunoichi but its another thing that Hollywood glorifies. I am sure there must have been some women capable with a sword though whether they used it on the field is beyond me.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:18 pm
by Tan_Binrui
Davey Vengeance wrote:Was there ever such a thing as a Lady Samurai? I mean the ninja's had Kunoichi but its another thing that Hollywood glorifies. I am sure there must have been some women capable with a sword though whether they used it on the field is beyond me.


Not that I know of. There have been female warriors, but I don't know of any who were officially samurai.

Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:26 pm
by Davey Vengeance
Tan_Binrui wrote:
Davey Vengeance wrote:Was there ever such a thing as a Lady Samurai? I mean the ninja's had Kunoichi but its another thing that Hollywood glorifies. I am sure there must have been some women capable with a sword though whether they used it on the field is beyond me.


Not that I know of. There have been female warriors, but I don't know of any who were officially samurai.


Thats what I thought, i assumed that all those years ago a womans place would not have been on the battle field.