Samurai or ninja. what would you choose.

Discuss historical events and information concerning any culture, time, or location in our world (or even the frontier beyond).

What would you choose to become.

Samurai
26
67%
Ninja
13
33%
 
Total votes : 39

Unread postby Wo Long » Tue May 09, 2006 3:55 pm

Xiahou Jia wrote:
urbanterrorist wrote:Ninjas get to dress in black. Thats a plus. :P


Ninjas never used black "uniform" in special operations. Black colour is quite visible at night and in dark rooms. Ninjas prefered dark colours like grey, but never black.
It is possible that they were dressed in black in non-covert situations like battling enemy alongside their allies (daymo's field armies) in broad daylight for the psychological effect. Still, it was a very unlikely thing to happen cause ninjas were cooperating with regular armies on very few occasions.


I'm not saying you're wrong about their outfit, but depending on how dark it is (which I'd assume it was very dark since they had candles rather than lightbulbs), black can blend right in. Ever been outside when there is no moon out? Shadows are pitch black. I remember one time I could've worn white and stood in the middle of my yard and not been seen because of the shadow of a tree. Trust me, black can blend in very well.
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Unread postby urbanterrorist » Wed May 10, 2006 1:11 am

I would much be hidden from my opponent by any means possible.
Secrey can be a huge factor in SURPRISE ATTACKS!
:P
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Unread postby Fated Emperor » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:14 am

Go ninjas, assasinating people in black. They make up all that rightious crap on samurais when most of them were drunks who beat the poor.
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Unread postby jiang cheng » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:53 pm

samurai with the code of honor
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Unread postby azn099 » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:49 pm

I would wanna be a samurai and fight and die like an honorable warrior.
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Unread postby Shikanosuke » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:36 pm

I would much like to include myself into the lofty rank of Samurai over ninja. Ninja most of the time were not in these highly elite ranks of spies. Half the time, I doubt a ninja was trained at all. Comparing skill, a samurai was a highly trained warrior, in all environments. However ninjas thrived only in stealth like situations, or other situations including disguise. Furthermore, regardless of skill or what not, samurai were respected members of society who usually had the authority to deal justice on the spot. Much like the ninja, alot of the mystique built around the samurai and his honor is fabricated for romancing. However, I'd rather be a member of respected class and indulge myself in the luxories that came with it.

Fated Emperor wrote:Go ninjas, assasinating people in black. They make up all that rightious crap on samurais when most of them were drunks who beat the poor.


^^ Perfect example of the romantization of "ninjas". Ninjas often were lowlifes. Men barely paid for the labor to run long distances and as you so pointed out, often merely stabbing people in the back or ambushing them.

However, as i aforementioned...samurai often were just what you described...whitecollar trash. But, you get the good with the bad. And just as you had wretched and immoral samurai you also had honor bound samurai obsessed with duty, principle, and justice.
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Unread postby cao cao#1 » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:58 pm

The stereotype of ninja continually wearing distinctive black outfits (shinobi shozoku) comes from the Kabuki theater. Prop handlers would dress in black and move props around on the stage. The audience would obviously see the prop handlers but would pretend they were invisible. Building on that willing suspension of disbelief, ninja also came to be portrayed in the theatre as wearing similar all black suits


Another fact that suggests the absence of any standard ninja outfit or easily identifiable weaponry is that if caught or seen recognizable items would have marked them as enemies, which would have resulted in capture, torture, and probably execution


There is no evidence that historical ninja limited themselves to all-black suits. Instead it is more likely that they often wore the same armor or clothing as samurai or Japanese peasants.


It is generally accepted that the methods found in Ninjutsu originated outside of Japan. After the fall of the T'ang dynasty in China, many outcast warriors, philosophers, and military strategists escaped to Japan to avoid punishment by the new Chinese rulers. It is believed that Ninja families were exposed to many of these exiled people's sophisticated warrior strategies and philosophies over the centuries, helping to influence and shape what became Ninjutsu.


Also ninja clans were mostly villages who sought to evade the large taxes the daimyo put on them and chose to live in secrecy and using there speciall espionage skills to avoid the tax man and enemy forces.
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Unread postby urbanterrorist » Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:12 pm

you also had honor bound samurai obsessed with duty, principle, and justice.


I call these men military tools.
They miss the whisper that runs any day in your mind,
"Who are you really, wanderer?" and the answer you have to give
no matter how dark and cold the world around you is:
"Maybe I'm a king. -William Stafford
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Unread postby Shikanosuke » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:37 am

urbanterrorist wrote:
you also had honor bound samurai obsessed with duty, principle, and justice.


I call these men military tools.


Call them as you wish. Hell, often times you could simply call them policemen. Samurai were not always engaged in martial combat.
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Unread postby Xiahou Jia » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:55 pm

I think it's time to bring some fun :wink:
It was not uncommon to be a Ninja AND a Samurai.
For example, Hattori Hanzo Iwami-no Kami Masanari, who was the son of the famous Hattori Hanzo, was deprived of the title of the samurai and lost the command over Iga-gumi after he provoked the Iga-gumi rebellion and killed the servant of Ina Kumazo Tadatsugu (the governor of 8 provinces of Kanto).

Anyway, it's not really correct to choose one OR another. Despite the popular myths spread by very influential people nowdays, there was never ever any confrontation between ninjas and samurai only because of their so called "hatred" to each other. Even Nobunaga's campaign against Iga ninjas was only against those ninjas who were not his or Ieyasu's allies. The Koga ninjas allied with Ieyasu and use him in diplomatic talks with Nobunaga . In the end Nobunaga agreed and kept his promise and didn't touch them. Tarao Sirobei Mitsuhiro and Hori Hidemasa (two ninjas from Koga) were taking an active part in destroying Iga. Nobunaga WAS using ninjas but to less extend than any other daymyo.

I have to disagree with the post that the methods found in Ninjutsu originated outside Japan. The basic ideas - yes, but the methods were mostly developed by Hattori Hanzo, Saika Magoichi, Momochi Sandayu and some others.
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