Would you change any events of the last 100 years of history

Discuss historical events and information concerning any culture, time, or location in our world (or even the frontier beyond).

Unread postby Hubsta » Fri May 05, 2006 8:13 pm

I'd change last week's lottery numbers in my favour :D .
"Religion, in which the being reveres one who cannot be proved to exist and lives within boundaries set by people on the same plane, is controlled thinking just as having one’s thoughts forbidden by an absolute ruler is."
User avatar
Hubsta
Scholar
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:10 pm
Location: Bruma.

Unread postby Mistelten » Sat May 06, 2006 1:42 am

Kong Wen wrote:I guess I meant on a global level rather than specifically the effect on Russia/USSR. Socialism would be a whole different ball-game without Lenin's revolution and the subsequent monolithic influence the USSR had on communist movements across Europe and in Asia. Imagine if socialism had been allowed to emerge (much later) as a viable political alternative in the USA, without the Cold War bad-guy stigma to bog it down.


I was thinking also of its effects in Europe right after the Revolution/Civil War. If the Bolsheviks didn't seize power, they would not have resorted to immediate coercion in Russia as well as in Germany, which means that the anti-Bolshevik backlash in Germany would not have vaulted the extreme right into power. Without the violence of Bolshevik methods, socialism could possibly have suceeded in Russia as it was the more moderate socialist parties that the people of Russia actually voted for. Therefore, socialism would be seen as something that was actually wanted by the majority, giving credibility to Marx's claims that such changes were inevitable. Also, it would have been less of a war of words and propaganda, without the "majorityites" representing a violent minority.
It would also have had much more of a chance in America because it would have been forced to come about through social change at all levels, instead of at the hands of a central government. A bolshevik revolution like Russia had was possible because Russia's government was so centralized and dependent on rule from the cities.

The Constituent Assembly was pretty darn Socialist and Commie anyway.

Don't underestimate Lenin's effect on the entire movement. The provisional government was put in place through relatively peaceful methods. They had left the Czar and most of the wealthy class in peace, but had merely denied them the status that they used to have. Lenin's violence sparked the anti-socialist attitude in much of the rest of the world. Before the October-November revolution, American sympathies were with the revolutionaries.
User avatar
Mistelten
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 2832
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:12 am

Unread postby Kong Wen » Sat May 06, 2006 1:58 am

I see what you're saying now, Mistelten, and I think we're basically on the same page re: Lenin. His "I want it all and I want it now" attitude towards revolution certainly did a lot to polarize politics in Europe, with broad-ranging repercussions.
"If I had to do my life over, I would change every single thing I have done."
— Raymond Douglas Davies, 1967
User avatar
Kong Wen
Golden God
Golden God
 
Posts: 11807
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Unread postby SunXia » Sat May 06, 2006 1:54 pm

No. History happened the way at did and we could make it 100 times worse by changing the slightest thing. I wouldn't risk changing a thing.


I agree with Wo Long on this one!!

It would be nice if you could change the bad thing that happened IF everything else stayed the same!! However this world isn't like that as things happen as a result of something else that occurred so history should stay the same, yes even the bad things, even if they weren't deserved!!
If becoming enlightened or an intellectual means I must become arrogant and coldly cynical about the world around me then I'd gladly remain a fool for the rest of my life!!

I'm Out4Marriage!!!Are You??

It is a CHOICE!!
User avatar
SunXia
Warrior Princess
Warrior Princess
 
Posts: 6531
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:48 pm
Location: Keeping Evils from this world at bay...with a smile!!

Unread postby Catalyst » Sat May 06, 2006 4:52 pm

To put things simply: you can't "change time". Time will always be, to an extent, the same. How does this happen? Because, it's history. It already happened.

If, for instance, you were to go back in time and, say, kill Hitler in 1935, you won't have stopped anything. You haven't "stopped" the Holocaust or World War 2, because you never learned about them, and thus, you would have had no reason to go back in time and kill Hitler, and as such, you didn't, he lived, and it would all still occur. Or, alternatively, you would forget the reason for killing Hitler the moment he is dead, and you would wonder why you did it, because the Holocaust or WW2 is gone. It's the paradox of time. You can not change the past because it already happened. You are, in a sense, changing it, by the history of the universe, but you, nor anyone else, will ever know that, because they have never learned an alternative. More than likely, though, the first thing would happen, wherein everything would still occur because of the paradox. If that happens, however, you're locked into a reccurence of the same thing, over and over again. Have fun with that!

Of course, assuming that you could actually change things, and it would have effect, then you end up screwing up lots of history. Let's use the WW2 idea, again. If you kill Hitler, and WW2 never happens, then the USA would never become a major world power, because they didn't go to war. Russia would probably end up dominating much of the world, and there would be considerably less people in the world (We wouldn't have lost people to war, but many people came back and had lots of kids (perhaps in case of another war?), and those would never have been born). Additionally, we wouldn't have nukes, since they came as the result of war , and so the cold war would never have occured, not like America, having never really been truly involved in a major war would've wanted to pick a fight with Russia, nor that Russia would've felt threatened enough to care. The Jews and Muslims wouldn't be at war, since the Jews never had to leave Europe, and the middle east would be in a relative state of peace, and 9/11 wouldn't have happened, nor either of the Iraq wars.

Other results abound, but you can see how that little cahnge can really shape the world differently. History must stay the same, because who knows what will come from changing it?
User avatar
Catalyst
Apostle of Peace
 
Posts: 2016
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:38 pm
Location: Out and about

Unread postby Ranbir » Sat May 06, 2006 6:15 pm

football11f wrote:Killing Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot and Vladamir Lenin as kids would be a start.



Did you learn nothing from Command & Conquer: Red Alert !?!!


Lots of stories of time travel talk about not affecting the past, as it would have adverse effects on the future. I can't begin to imagine what might happen should we change anything...

I would like to, however, change the way the independance of India came about. Mostly preventing partition. A land...a land for thousands of years that has lived in complete multi-cultural and religious diversity...all thrown away to a religious divide minded by Ghandi and the cronies of that day. Independance Day? India's Darkest Day... :(
"The imaginary number is a fine and wonderful resource of the human spirit, almost an amphibian between being and not being." - Gottfried Leibniz
Science snobbery.
User avatar
Ranbir
For Queen and Country
 
Posts: 8489
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 9:27 am
Location: Your heart. <3

Unread postby Snake » Sun May 07, 2006 1:44 am

Wasn't Ghandi against partition?
Former Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke was at one time the world record holder for fastest sculling of a yard of beer
Snake
Master
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:28 am
Location: Australia

Unread postby Jordan » Sun May 07, 2006 3:12 am

I'd murder every human in existence to prevent the inevitable terror, corruption, persecution and violence that is bound to happen in the future, as it has occurred in the past since the dawn of human civilization.
User avatar
Jordan
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 5884
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:52 am

Unread postby Kong Wen » Sun May 07, 2006 3:16 am

SlickSlicer wrote:I'd murder every human in existence to prevent the inevitable terror, corruption, persecution and violence that is bound to happen in the future, as it has occurred in the past since the dawn of human civilization.

Er... so the "event" you'd change would be, uh... every human being not being murdered?
"If I had to do my life over, I would change every single thing I have done."
— Raymond Douglas Davies, 1967
User avatar
Kong Wen
Golden God
Golden God
 
Posts: 11807
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Unread postby Snake » Sun May 07, 2006 3:19 am

Kong Wen wrote:
SlickSlicer wrote:I'd murder every human in existence to prevent the inevitable terror, corruption, persecution and violence that is bound to happen in the future, as it has occurred in the past since the dawn of human civilization.

Er... so the "event" you'd change would be, uh... every human being not being murdered?


Bwahahaha. Oh, SNAP!
Former Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke was at one time the world record holder for fastest sculling of a yard of beer
Snake
Master
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:28 am
Location: Australia

PreviousNext

Return to World History Deliberation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved