The Greatest Ninjas

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The Greatest Ninjas

Unread postby Waking Dragon » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:05 am

http://www.ninjutsu.com/osensei-takamatsu.shtml

"On one occasion the sleeping area for the match factory workers caught on fire. As everyone ran around screaming, Takamatsu was observed to be smoking a cigar, watching the fire. He then got one of the thick gi training jackets, soaked it in water and put the jacket on. He grabbed a hanbo (3ft stick) and running into the burning area, started to knock down the sliding walls with the hanbo. The collapsing walls helped extinguish the flames, saving the rest of the factory. Ishitani is reputed to have watched Takamatsu as he ran about knocking down the walls and commented that he was truly a great martial artist."

That is truly amazing. He was a true master of ninjutsu.
Last edited by Waking Dragon on Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Ranbir » Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:33 am

Surely the greatest ninja is the one that is and has remained unknown to us forever and ever!
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Unread postby barbarosso » Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:51 pm

Wait, Ninja's where assasins, hardly men or honor. The idea is cool, but hardly compares to the viture of many great leaders they have killed. :(
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:21 am

barbarosso wrote:Wait, Ninja's where assasins, hardly men or honor. The idea is cool, but hardly compares to the viture of many great leaders they have killed. :(

Certainly honour doesn't enter into it, when the point of inquiry is simply who was the greatest ninja.
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Unread postby Master Kong » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:06 pm

well quiteobviously we never heard of the greatest ninja

by definition thats what would define the best
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Unread postby Jordan » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:08 am

Hmm...the most famous ninjas seem to be Hanzo Hattori and Kotaro Fuma. I've seen both in a large number of videogames after searching the web for these names a few times. There's also Sarutobi Sasuke, a Koga ninja and some famous Iga ninja who's name always eludes me. The one I'm speaking about actually appeared in Kessen III and kicked some major butt. He commanded the Iga ninja or served as one of the generals at least in the Iga ninja battle. He also showed up in many other fights. The best ninjas either came from the Iga or Koga schools, both around or close to the same area at least. The Fuma ninjas, like Kotaro, served the Hojo/Go-Hojo. Possibly the most famous kunoichi, Chiyome Mochizuki, came from the Koga school and served the Takeda.

Edit-Oh yeah Nobunaga hated ninjas but some of his generals, such as Hideyoshi of course, employed them commonly. Hideyoshi's best ninja was Watanabe who distinguished himself in a number of instances and worked as Hideyoshi's intelligence.
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Unread postby Xiahou Jia » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:11 am

Hattori Hanzo Masasige is the best ninja imho.
Sarutobi Sasuke is a fictional character and historians think that his character is based on Simotsuge Kidzaru also known as Uedzuki Sasuke from Iga.
The following people were confirmed to be historical ninjas. Sorry, if my spelling is not very accurate. Also ninjas that were born after the death of Tokugawa Ieyasu are not mentioned here but I can assure you that Masaaki Hatsumi is not a ninja, though he is a great martial artist :wink:

Iga:
1. Hattori Hanzo Yasunaga
2. Hattori Hanzo Masasige - son of Hattori Hanzo Yasunaga and the famous bodyguard of Tokugawa Ieyasu
3. Fudzibayasi Nagato-no Kami
4. Momoti Tamba Yasumitsu (Momoti Sandayu) - could be another name for Fudzubayasi Nagato-no Kami
5. Nomura Oi Magodayu
6. Sindo Kotaro
7. Tateoka (Igasaki) Mitidzun
8. Simotsuge Kidzaru (Uedzuki Sasuke)
9. Simotsuge Kodzaro - possibly the son of Simotsuge Kidzaru
10. Ueno Hidari (Takava Sahei)
11. Yamada Hatiemon (Yaemon)
12. Kambe Konan
13. Otova Kido - could be another name for Igasaki Mitidzun, famous for trying to kill Nobunaga
14. Takayama Tarosiro
15. Takayama Tarodzaemon
16. Isikava Goemon - famous for trying to kill both Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Oda Nobunaga
17. Momoda Tobei
18. Yokoyama Dzinsuke
19. Fukukita Syogan
20. Mori Sirodzaemon
21. Matii Kiyobei
22. Yamado Kansiro

Koga:
1. Yamanara Dzuro
2. Saga Etidzen-no Kami
3. Miyadzimi Kamimoribenosuke
4. Kuradzi Ukonnosuke
5. Hirano Tonomorinosuke
6. Katsuragi Tango-no Kami
7. Sugitani Yototsugi
8. Kiyama Sikanosuke
9. Motidzuki Idzumo-no Kami
10. Vada Iga-no Kami
11. Hari Idzumo-no Kami
12. Oki Ukon Taro
13. Akutagava Sakyomaru
14. Uda Tonai
15. Torii Heinai
16. Sugiyama Hatiro
17. Hattori Totaro
18. Okavahara Gennai
19. Okubo Gennai
20. Sadzi Kavati-no Kami
21. Takamine Kurando
22. Ohara Gendzaburo
23. Ban Sakyonosuke
24. Makimura Umanosuke
25. Uenosyu Yosimasa
26. Taki Kantaro
27. Noda Goro
28. Ivane Nagato-no Kami
29. Kogava Bunnai
30. Ugai Genhatiro
31. Kogava Magodzuro
32. Yamakami Tositiro
33. Hata Kansuke
34. Hayami Sihonosuke
35. Kamiyama Sinhatiro
36. Ivamuro Daigakunosuke
37. Nakayama Minobedzyo
38. Takayama Gendaidzaemon
39. Ikeda Syoemon
40. Nagano Kyobudzyo
41. Utiki Iga-no Kami
42. Ono Miyauti Syoho
43. Sindzyo Etigo-no Kami
44. Aoki Tikugo-no Kami
45. Koidzumi Gaiki
46. Natsumi Daigaku
47. Tarao Sirobei
48. Niva Mikumo Sindzobito
49. Minobe Genkiti
50. Akimoto Kodzukenosuke Masahide
51. Dzimbo Heinai
52. Takamatsu Ise-no Kami
53. Aeba Kavati-no Kami
54. Takano Bingo-no Kami
55. Nino Kuranosuke
56. Tatsumi Niro
57. Honda Tikudzen-no Kami
58. Uenisi Bego
59. Kidono Yamato-no Kami
60. Endo Musyanosuke
61. Sekiguti Gondzyuro

Negoro:
1. Suginobo Myosan
2. Ivamurobo - first name not known
3. Sensikibo - first name not known
4. Akaibo - first name not known
5. Negoro Denko - organized his own school within Negoro-ryu

Ninjas of Tokugawa:
1. Hattori Gensuke
2. Hattori Dendziro
3. Hattori Den'emon
4. Hattori Magobei
5. Hattori Utikura
6. Hattori Sinkuro
7. Hattori Kanroku
8. Tsuge Sannodzyo
9. Tsuge Itinosuke
10. Tsuge Kanhatiro
11. Yamaoka Sobei
12. Yamaoka Sukedayu
13. Tomita Yahei
14. Fukumori Sadanari
15. Yamanaka Tobei
16. Kikuti Toyofusi
17. Sibata Suho
18. Yoneti Hansuke
19. Yamaguti Kansuke

Other:
1. Idaten - real name not known, from Omi, worked for Hideyoshi
2. Fuma Kotaro - worked for Hojo
3. Tomito Godzaemon - worked for Takeda Shingen
4. Motidzuki Tiyomo - famous kunoichi of Shingen
5. Usami Suraga-no Kami Sandayuki - worked for Uesugi Kenshin, there are still some doubts about him being a ninja.
6. Kadzi Omi-no Kami Kagahide - worked for Kenshin.
7. Sada Hikosiro - the most talanted of Sada brothers, worked for Mori
8. Sada Dzingoro (Goro) - Hikosiro's and Konedzumi's brother, worked for Mori
9. Sada Konedzumi - brother to Hikosiro and Goro, worked for Mori
10. Saiga Magoichi Sigetomo - founder of Saiga-ryu, studied ninjutsu in Negoro-ryu
11. Fudzibayasi Yasutake - theoretically belongs to Iga school, author of an important book on Ninjutsu
12. Fudzibayasi Masatake - Yasutake's brother, an author of another masterpiece on Ninjutsu, founder of his own school and a follower of Iga-ryu
13. Hatisuka Tendzo - worked for Nobunaga, tried to kill Takeda Shingen
14. Kato Dandzo - was a real ninja but his deeds are extremely exaggerated now.
15. Sugitani Dzendzyubo - believed to be a ninja from Koga, tried to kill Nobunaga
16. Satoru Doken - Koga ninja, worked for Takeda, tried to kill Nobunaga but was killed by Hattori Hanzo
17. Manabe Rokuro - another unlucky hunter for Nobunaga's head, possibly from Iga

Legends and myths:
1. Kempati Dzinnai - Uesugi Kenshin was not killed by this ninja in a toilet. This is the most popular myth in the history of ninjutsu. Dzinnai never existed.
2. Sarutobi Sasuke - mentioned in the beginning of the post.
3. Kato Dandzo - see "other, 14."

There were lots of other ninjas but they were not that important. Sorry for such a huge post, but may be some people will find it interesting and helpful :oops:
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Unread postby Jordan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:00 am

I thought that Sarutobi Sasuke was one of Sanada's 10 Braves. And yeah Danzo's deeds are overexaggerated but I still like him...I knew that Kenshin was not killed by a ninja but I thought he died on the toilet anyways from stomach cancer. I didn't know that Sandayuki was a ninja. o_0

Wow dude you know a hell of a lot about ninjas. I have a lot of questions for you.

1.) Where did you learn that those characters were fictional?
2.) Did Kotaro kill Hanzo or is that just a myth?
3.) What about the ninja Watanabe? Did he serve Hideyoshi and was he responsible for saving...I think Hanbei Takenaka or some other character from Araki?
4.) I have heard that Goemon was the son of Mitsuhide Akechi from a few different sites. Do you have conclusive proof for or against this? (Like any sources which explicitly disprove that rumour)
5.) Besides Chiyome Mochizuki, were there any other historical Kunoichi? I heard some where that a few Iga Kunoichi existed besides her but I forgot where...
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Unread postby Xiahou Jia » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:45 am

I'll try to answer some of the questions now.

1. Kunoichi.
Chiyome Mochizuki organized that special unit for Takeda, so that means that there were definately more of them. It is also possible that some of them were originally from Iga but the training they received was provided by Chiyome Mochizuki in the lands of Takeda clan. I never heard about female ninjas who were trained in Iga. Perhaps it is a subject for further investigation.

2. Hanzo and Kotaro.
I'm absolutely sure that Fuma Kotaro didn't kill Hanzo. Moreover there's a very slight possibility that Hattori Hanzo killed Kotaro.
Hattori Hanzo is the only ninja who's life is known from the date of birth to the date of death. He died on 14th day of 11th month in 1596 because of an old age.
Now about Fuma Kotaro. Fuma Kotaro and his group of ninjas were always creating problems for Hanzo but in the end Hanzo defeated the main force of Kotaro and in a short period after found and destroyed their "base of operations". After that the names of Fuma Kotaro and his ninjas were never heard again. Nobody knows what happened to him. He just disappeared. Most of the Fuma ninjas who managed to survive became bandits and pirates.
So can a person with a known cause of death (old age) be killed by someone? No, Kotaro has nothing to do with a death of Hanzo and as you see it was Kotaro who vanished without a trace thus giving us an idea that may be he was killed battling Hanzo.
Conclusion:
1. Kotaro killed Hanzo - 0%
2. Hanzo (or his ninjas) killed Kotaro - 5%
3. Hanzo died naturally and Kotaro just disappeared - 95%
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Unread postby Jordan » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:19 am

2. Hanzo and Kotaro.
I'm absolutely sure that Fuma Kotaro didn't kill Hanzo. Moreover there's a very slight possibility that Hattori Hanzo killed Kotaro.
Hattori Hanzo is the only ninja who's life is known from the date of birth to the date of death. He died on 14th day of 11th month in 1596 because of an old age.
Now about Fuma Kotaro. Fuma Kotaro and his group of ninjas were always creating problems for Hanzo but in the end Hanzo defeated the main force of Kotaro and in a short period after found and destroyed their "base of operations". After that the names of Fuma Kotaro and his ninjas were never heard again. Nobody knows what happened to him. He just disappeared. Most of the Fuma ninjas who managed to survive became bandits and pirates.
So can a person with a known cause of death (old age) be killed by someone? No, Kotaro has nothing to do with a death of Hanzo and as you see it was Kotaro who vanished without a trace thus giving us an idea that may be he was killed battling Hanzo.
Conclusion:
1. Kotaro killed Hanzo - 0%
2. Hanzo (or his ninjas) killed Kotaro - 5%
3. Hanzo died naturally and Kotaro just disappeared - 95%


Yeah dude! That's totally what I thought before I heard the whole rumour about Kotaro and Hanzo fighting in some naval battle and Fuma killing off Hattori. Somebody (I think it was DarkScorpion of this forum and some others) told me prior to the circulation of that rumour that there was some big battle between the Iga (+maybe Koga?) ninjas and the Fuma and the Iga/possibly Koga forces destroyed the Fuma clan.

And I'll try to find out where I heard about the Iga Kunoichi thing. I think I might know the site but not the page on the site (it's a massive geocities site). I just can't look for it today (too much stuff to do @_@). Anyways thanks a lot for the answers man!
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