Best strategist ever in Chinese History

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Unread postby Shadowlink » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:19 pm

Asellas wrote:That fella… what's his name… Xiang Yu.
:lol: he is like another lu bu the girl is his downfall... about han xin... i think he got too much power and he tried to sleep with the emperor's girl! roarrrrrrrrrr :evil: . no wonder the emperor would wanna kill him, at least zhang liang was smart enough to run away =]. zhuge liang isnt a joke, he tried his best :?
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Unread postby Wo Long » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:34 pm

Master Sun Wu gets my vote.
Me Blog.
Restore the Ming Dynasty in Beijing!
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Unread postby Asellas » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:29 am

Shadowlink wrote:
Asellas wrote:That fella… what's his name… Xiang Yu.
:lol: he is like another lu bu the girl is his downfall... about han xin... i think he got too much power and he tried to sleep with the emperor's girl! roarrrrrrrrrr :evil: . no wonder the emperor would wanna kill him, at least zhang liang was smart enough to run away =]. zhuge liang isnt a joke, he tried his best :?


You are referring to Xiang Yu? He was NOTHING like Lu Bu. For starters, Xiang Yu committed suicide and was not afraid of death like Lu Bu was.
http://www.britishbornchinese.org.uk/pa ... xiang.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiang_Yu

See, whilst he did go downhill, he was a very good strategist for being able to do what he done.
I know all about Xiang Yu… you show me how he was like Lu Bu?
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:07 pm

Asellas wrote:
Shadowlink wrote:
Asellas wrote:That fella… what's his name… Xiang Yu.
:lol: he is like another lu bu the girl is his downfall... about han xin... i think he got too much power and he tried to sleep with the emperor's girl! roarrrrrrrrrr :evil: . no wonder the emperor would wanna kill him, at least zhang liang was smart enough to run away =]. zhuge liang isnt a joke, he tried his best :?


You are referring to Xiang Yu? He was NOTHING like Lu Bu. For starters, Xiang Yu committed suicide and was not afraid of death like Lu Bu was.
http://www.britishbornchinese.org.uk/pa ... xiang.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiang_Yu

See, whilst he did go downhill, he was a very good strategist for being able to do what he done.
I know all about Xiang Yu… you show me how he was like Lu Bu?
he killed himself with that cursed sword... i forgot what it was called, when i was refering him to lu bu i meant that he was that that girl who was a dancer, his uncle or who he called uncle was a advisor to him and often told him not to be with that girl or it will be his downfall. btw i saw this on a tvbi show so it might not be true. when i watced it i did know that she let liu bang escape and it was she that got sick or something and xiang yu decided to spend the night with her. his uncle tried to kill her several times but failed, in the end she commited suicide with xiang yu i think
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Unread postby Roy » Fri May 05, 2006 4:15 am

i would say Zhuge Liang because his strategies and ideas were quite interesting.
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Unread postby Man Chong » Sat May 13, 2006 5:11 am

No love for Yuan Chonghuan?
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Unread postby bodidley » Sat May 13, 2006 5:07 pm

I'm a big Wu Qi fan myself.
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Unread postby lessthanpleased » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:59 pm

Given the little I know, I would rank the Chairman first. While Mao lacks the panache of the fictional Zhuge Liang (and probably the historical Kongming as well), at the end of the day what the Chairman did worked from a military standpoint.

I would rank him above Sun Tzu: just as Sun Tzu reportedly learned lessons from military strategists of the past, so did Mao. But Mao, rather than being a mere academic or theoretician, used his knowledge to turn hordes of peasants into a force that brought a government to its knees, created revolution, and survived the aftermath to be the absolute ruler. What he didn't synthesize from Sun Tzu, he surely synthesized from Machiavelli, Napoleon, and probably even Julius Caesar in his Account of the Gallic Wars, all of which would have been studied by an academic during his time period.

The amount Mao accomplished is almost unthinkable given the resources he was allocated. He outshines even the fictional Zhuge Liang insofar as he began with similar resources (the hearts of the peope) and did what the deity never could: unified China.

The man was a genius. Not a very nice person, or even good person towards the end, but a stunning tactician.

-neal
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Unread postby Chris the King » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:56 pm

lessthanpleased wrote:The amount Mao accomplished is almost unthinkable given the resources he was allocated. He outshines even the fictional Zhuge Liang insofar as he began with similar resources (the hearts of the peope) and did what the deity never could: unified China.

The man was a genius. Not a very nice person, or even good person towards the end, but a stunning tactician.

-neal


Agreed. In a striking similarity, during the Long March, Mao's meager forces escaped Chiang Kai Shek's much larger army much like Liu Bei escaped Cao Cao in Jing. They survived against hostile non-Han warlords, starvation, and the extreme trek on foot, just to obtain isolation and protection from the enemy. They did not have a Liu Biao or Sun Quan to rely on, and his army, at one point numbering less than 10,000, did not compare to the hundreds of thousands of soldiers in the nationalist army.

From this point they began to win the hearts of the people and rebuilt their party and troop base in the countryside, away from the urban-centered nationalists. During the Sino-Japanese war (WWII), when communist and nationalist forces fought alongside each other, Mao was in a stronger position than before, as he was careful to not use his own forces for the defense against the Japanese. Thereafter, he continued to reach out to the common folk and gain rural support, bided his time while his enemies lost popularity and began to implode politically, and struck at the first opportunity.

What makes his victories even more amazing was that his forces were largely uneducated peasants, yet he managed to utilize tactics that accounted for this. His tactics were broad simple, and while they lacked the finesse of a Bo Wan Slope or Chi Bi, they were even more effective because of the scope of the results. He crossed the entire country and back again to make the greatest comeback in Chinese history that I can think of (and like lessthanpleased, I'm no expert). If you didn't know what he did afterwards, you really would think this was a Liu Bei who won.
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Unread postby the glorious sun jian » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:23 pm

the best warlord is lu meng he isn,t just smart but strong too also he didn,t think he is perfect and his plane to capture guan yu was great (dont say it was lu xun,s )
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