Page 1 of 4

History's Greatest Betrayal

Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:28 pm
by Zhuge Zhao
In the past there were many types of betrayal. Mostly it happen during the ages of conflict between two powers to take over. What was the most memorable and greatest betrayal that change history. It could also be your favorite.

The greatest betrayal in my opinion would be Ieyasu betraying his friend Hideyoshi and took over Japan and establish the Tokugawa Dynasty.

So what is yours?

Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:02 pm
by Mistelten
Probably Absolom. The son who betrayed his father, and took his best friend and advisor with him.

Re: History's Greatest Betrayal

Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:02 pm
by Koichi
Zhuge Zhao wrote:In the past there were many types of betrayal. Mostly it happen during the ages of conflict between two powers to take over. What was the most memorable and greatest betrayal that change history. It could also be your favorite.

The greatest betrayal in my opinion would be Ieyasu betraying his friend Hideyoshi and took over Japan and establish the Tokugawa Dynasty.

So what is yours?


Hideyoshi was the undispited central authority of the country who left his five year old heir to the care of the five most powerful daimyo in the country. The other four daimyo (Mouri Terumoto, Ukita Hideie, Uesugi Kagekatsu, and Maeda Toshiie, props for this history geek who actually remembers the names :? ) and Ishida Mitsunari were no angels. Ieyasu clearly didn't trust them and probably figured if anyone was going to seize power in this country it might as well be him. Not saying what he did was right or wrong. Without a central authority, well, theres nothing to stop these people from fighting. They have no security over their possessions and powers. That's why I get annoyed when people complain about "illegal wars".

My vote for greatest betrayal would have to go to Yuan Shikai, the Qing general who was chosen by Sun Yat-sen to be the first President of the Chinese republic. Instead he declared himself emperor, causing a rift between him and Sun Yat-sen. When he died shortly after, China had no central authority figure and the country collapsed into warlordism. The coming decades of incessant warlord warfare, Japanese invasion, civil war between the Nationalists and Communists, even the horrors of the Communist regime afterwards, I attribute all to him. Had it not been for the actions of this one man, it could've all been avoided.

Re: History's Greatest Betrayal

Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:07 pm
by Dennis
Koichi wrote:My vote for greatest betrayal would have to go to Yuan Shikai, the Qing general who was chosen by Sun Yat-sen to be the first President of the Chinese republic. Instead he declared himself emperor, causing a rift between him and Sun Yat-sen. When he died shortly after, China had no central authority figure and the country collapsed into warlordism. The coming decades of incessant warlord warfare, Japanese invasion, civil war between the Nationalists and Communists, even the horrors of the Communist regime afterwards, I attribute all to him. Had it not been for the actions of this one man, it could've all been avoided.


Oh my god... I never thought of that, and you;'re right, Yuan Shikai is the world's worst man.
Him or Qin Hui (Nan Song)

Re: History's Greatest Betrayal

Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:31 pm
by The Zibbuto
Zhuge Zhao wrote:The greatest betrayal in my opinion would be Ieyasu betraying his friend Hideyoshi and took over Japan and establish the Tokugawa Dynasty.

Yeah. And also Kobayakawa in the battle of Sekigahara, making sure Ieyasu's victory :evil:

Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:47 am
by Lu Kang
Brutus to Ceasar, his own friend killing him, ending what could have been greatest for Rome and plunging it into civil war.

Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:44 pm
by Han Liang
Maybe the French, betraying themselves. They decide that the peasant class has had enough, and it's timefora change from feudalist brutality. Then--BLAM! they go on a killing spree, and BOOM! they've got an Emperor and BANG! the become imperialistic jerks. Yeah, nice revolution.

Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:07 pm
by Koichi
Han Liang wrote:Maybe the French, betraying themselves. They decide that the peasant class has had enough, and it's timefora change from feudalist brutality. Then--BLAM! they go on a killing spree, and BOOM! they've got an Emperor and BANG! the become imperialistic jerks. Yeah, nice revolution.


Hehe well the French were imperialistic jerks before the revolution, remember the French and Indian War? About their revolutions, France was declared a republic four times in their history. The first time was after the monarchy, the second time after Napoleon I, the third time after Napoleon III, and the fourth time after the Vichy regime when the Germans withdrew.

Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:10 am
by Han Liang
Koichi wrote:
Han Liang wrote:Maybe the French, betraying themselves. They decide that the peasant class has had enough, and it's timefora change from feudalist brutality. Then--BLAM! they go on a killing spree, and BOOM! they've got an Emperor and BANG! the become imperialistic jerks. Yeah, nice revolution.


Hehe well the French were imperialistic jerks before the revolution, remember the French and Indian War?


EXACTLY!!! EXACTLY!!! EGG-SACKED-LEE!!! Maybe I should have said "BANG! they become imperialistic jerks YET AGAIN!!!"

Yayyy, triple exclamation.

Stalin's betrayal of Marxism is pretty galling, too.

Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:10 am
by Mistelten
Every line of Shoguns starts with a dark history. The very first Shogun was Minamoto Yoritomo. His brother was the legendary Minamoto Yoshisune; the victor of the three decisive battles of the Gempei war and all around hero. Instead of rewarding him for bringing him to power, Yoritomo has him killed and his son thrown into the sea. Not very grateful.