Zhuge Liang's Six Campaigns

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Which of the Six Campaigns had the best chance?

First Campaign- Jieting
Second Campaign- Failed Siege of Chencang
No votes
Third Campaign- Successful Siege of Chencang
Fourth Campaign- The Death of Cao Zhen
Fifth Campaign- The Death of Zhang He
Sixth Campaign- Wuzhangyuan
Total votes : 43

Zhuge Liang's Six Campaigns

Unread postby Sima Hui » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:20 am

Which of Zhuge Liang's Six Offensives from Qishan had the best chance of succeeding? Please not that this is not a topic to shout at each other about Sima Yi being greater that Zhuge Liang or vice versa.

In my opinion, the First Campaign had the best chance of succeeding. Zhao Yun was still alive, the Shu army had high morale and they had been constantly defeating the Wei army.
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Unread postby White Horse General » Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:46 pm

I'd definatly put my money on his first campaign. He had real momentum going until things started coming apart at the seams.
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Unread postby Shield of Rohan » Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:25 pm

I agree with you - the First Campaign was the one that could have gone up to Wei's back door and given it one big kick as it had already run over Wei defenses around Tian Shui. Except good ol' Ma Su blew it all at Jieting :roll: . The Fifth Campaign was probably next. Zhuge Liang and Wang Ping were giving Sima Yi a severe beating at Qishan, but weather and Li Yan's failure killed it. At least they wiped out Zhang He before returning to Han Zhong. All of his campaigns were successful in some way, though some were mere sorties like the 2nd, while others were full-scale invasions by Kongming that posed a great threat to Wei that were blown by foolish generals in the Shu army.
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Unread postby Wizardman » Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:48 pm

I'd have to go with the 5th campaign. The reason being is that although most of Shu's best generals were gone, Wang Ping, Ma Dai, and others were able to hold back Wei. And in 234, Wei had few good generals at the time, as their best ones left had all recently been killed. This one defeinitely has the most potential. The 1st one would be a close second for all the reasons listed.
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Unread postby Lafeel » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:40 pm

The 1st. He had better resources, and generals, behind him then in any of the others. And it's also the closest he ever came to defeating Wei..
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Unread postby sivie » Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:38 pm

One, is just read that part again and zhuge had a very good chance at taking chang an if it wasn't for meng da and ma su.
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Unread postby King_Ilze » Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:43 am

I'm going with the 5th campaign. Even though Shu had lost most of their great generals, they still had a handfull of greats. Also, Wei had also lost most of their good generals. Zhuge Liang was definatly at a high during this campaign(other highs would be thw first campaign and 6th) I beleive this campaign did the most potential.
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:11 am

First,he had a real element of surprise going for him there.Even so though,I'm can't be sure he had a real chance to take Chang An.I don't know what plan he had,but it would be a tough obstacle to overcome.

Assuming he had no set plan to take Chang An then I say 5th.Long term deployment will own Sima Yi left and right.
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First Campaign's short-sightedness

Unread postby ZhangBaihu » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:53 am

I cannot deny the consensus. The first campaign seemed to have the most potential. With the pillar of Shu Zhao Yun still alive as well as the specious strategist Ma Su. In Zhuge Liang's Second Petition on Taking the Field, he lists several officers Shu has lost numbering "nearly eighty."

The advantage of able commanders aside, the first campaign was the only considerable gain of territory. Perhaps launching his expedition with the intent of merely holding on to Tian Shui and its surrounding cities instead of Changan as the goal, he might have been able to lay down a better groundwork for future campaigns to slowly erode Wei's territory.
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Unread postby Emperor Zhuge Liang » Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:31 pm

Definetly the first. Shu had more of it's great officers back then and Zhuge was winning battle after battle until Ma Su was sent to Jie Ting.
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