Guan Yu's sons.. who is most dutiful?

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Guan Yu's sons.. who is most dutiful?

Unread postby Kuan P'ing » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:02 am

Hey! I hope this one isn't alreay going on somewhere.. of Guan Yu's sons who's the most dutiful? I would say Guan Ping (Hmm I wonder why? :roll: ) because he stuck with his fathe to the bitter end. But i don commend Guan Xing for avenging his father AND brother. Who do you think?
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Re: Guan Yu's sons.. who is most dutiful?

Unread postby Erdrick » Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:58 pm

Kuan P'ing wrote:Hey! I hope this one isn't alreay going on somewhere.. of Guan Yu's sons who's the most dutiful? I would say Guan Ping (Hmm I wonder why? :roll: ) because he stuck with his fathe to the bitter end. But i don commend Guan Xing for avenging his father AND brother. Who do you think?



Well, given that Guan Xing and Suo were over in Chengdu when Guan Yu was captured/killed, why should they be considered less dutiful? Afterall, it was their father who sent/left them there...
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Unread postby PrimeMinister Bu Zhi » Tue Jul 27, 2004 3:30 pm

Guan Xing and Suo did nothing. They never aveneged their father. If he really encountered Pan Zhang, Xing would be captured and killed. Pan Zhang had a powerfull army and was a skillfull general, Guan Xing had little to none experience. Same with Zhang Bao. In history, they did nothing famous other then be the sons of their fathers. They both sucked.
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Unread postby Kuan P'ing » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:05 pm

:cry: aww, that makes me feel bad. I kinda figured since in the book they made a huge deal about avenging Guan Yu and Zhang Fei it happened, but... I guess not.
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Unread postby Erdrick » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:25 pm

PrimeMinister Bu Zhi wrote:Guan Xing and Suo did nothing. They never aveneged their father. If he really encountered Pan Zhang, Xing would be captured and killed. Pan Zhang had a powerfull army and was a skillfull general, Guan Xing had little to none experience. Same with Zhang Bao. In history, they did nothing famous other then be the sons of their fathers. They both sucked.


No, Xing, historically, was a civil officer, and Suo... don't even know if he was ever mentioned in the SGZ, and know some think Suo may have been Yunchang's daughter.


Kuan P'ing wrote::cry: aww, that makes me feel bad. I kinda figured since in the book they made a huge deal about avenging Guan Yu and Zhang Fei it happened, but... I guess not.


Well, the novel and the histories are different. Of course, if you're talking about the novel instead... (After all, this is the SGZZ Symposium, not the SGZ Symposium)
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Unread postby Shield of Rohan » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:01 pm

I like their novel selves better in this case-sons avenging the wrongful deaths of their fathers and becoming great generals and leaders themselves. By novel, I would say all three sons of Guan Yu were equally dutiful. Guan Ping fought to the end beside his father and died a sorrowful death with him. Guan Xing avenged them on the heads of many Wu soldiers, including Pan Zhang. Guan Suo continued Guan Yu's legacy in battle, becoming a hero in the Southern Campaigns. Truly men to be honored for their loyalty and might.
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Unread postby Kuan P'ing » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:13 pm

PrimeMinister Bu Zhi wrote:Guan Xing and Suo did nothing. They never aveneged their father. If he really encountered Pan Zhang, Xing would be captured and killed. Pan Zhang had a powerfull army and was a skillfull general, Guan Xing had little to none experience. Same with Zhang Bao. In history, they did nothing famous other then be the sons of their fathers. They both sucked.


SO basically you're saying that they were awful in history? But why would it be sooooo diferent in the book?
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Unread postby Shield of Rohan » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:18 pm

I don't know much about the history of Guan Yu's sons outside of the novel, but I suspect their deeds were not exaggerated greatly, and only at certain points. I am going to look into their historical selves and judge for myself.
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Unread postby Kuan P'ing » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:20 pm

That would be awesome.
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:27 pm

Shield of Rohan wrote:I don't know much about the history of Guan Yu's sons outside of the novel, but I suspect their deeds were not exaggerated greatly, and only at certain points. I am going to look into their historical selves and judge for myself.

You'll find that Guan Xing was a civil officer and that Guan Suo didn't exist.

Kuan P'ing wrote:SO basically you're saying that they were awful in history? But why would it be sooooo diferent in the book?

Because they were the sons of people who had become legendary. It made more sense, from a fiction writer's point of view (and I don't just mean Luo Guanzhong, but all of the oral folktale folks before him) to change them around in order to reflect Guan Yu's character a bit more.
"If I had to do my life over, I would change every single thing I have done."
— Raymond Douglas Davies, 1967
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