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What do you hate Liu Shan for the most?

Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:09 pm
by Sima Hui
Which of the above events makes you hate Liu Shan the most? Is it the Dangyang incident, where he almost killed Zhao Yun? Is it when he almost killed Zhao Yun again when Lady Sun stole him? Is it when he listened to Huang Hao? Is it when he was ruling and made a mess of Shu? Is it when he finally surrendered to Wei and ruined his dignity? Or is it the famous Lord of Happiness event, where he made a fool of himself when his "tearful act" failed miserably. Or is it another event?

Re: What do you hate Liu Shan for the most?

Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:11 pm
by Kong Wen
Sima Hui wrote:Is it the Dangyang incident, where he almost killed Zhao Yun? Is it when he almost killed Zhao Yun again when Lady Sun stole him?

Neither event was his fault.

Sima Hui wrote:Is it when he listened to Huang Hao? Is it when he was ruling and made a mess of Shu?

Aren't these two events essentially the same thing?

For the record, I find his ready ear for Huang Hao the most distasteful.

Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:15 pm
by Sima Hui
Not exactly Kong. When ruling Shu, he often had a lust for women, (at least, according to his officials) and he didn't educate himself well. That is a different thing from Huang Hao! :wink:

And plus, I know that neither of the Zhao Yun events were his fault. Some people however, might disagree. :wink:

Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:22 pm
by robbyjo
His act to listen to Huang Hao and surrender to Wei are the top two reasons. But I placed my vote on the latter.

-- Rob

Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:31 pm
by dengai
I hate Liu Shan the most for calling Jiang Wei and Zhuge back for their northern expeditions

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:18 am
by Shield of Rohan
His pitiful rule is the reason I selected, though that falls in line with his listening to Huang Hao and his surrender to Wei. All are good reasons to hate the man.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:23 am
by Exar Kun
Surrendering to Wei.
He really didn't have to.

I don't really blame him for his rule,most Emperors are like that.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:31 am
by phenomenal17
I think his most pathetic performance as ruler was at the banquet/festival thing thrown after he surrendered. All the Shu officers were somber and disappointed, except for their dumb, ever-smiling leader. I seem to remember him saying something about how he didn't mind surrender so much if the entertainment was so nice.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:46 am
by changshanzhaoyun
I hate him for not dying in Dang Yang when Liu Bei threw him on the ground, (novel)

or when he just plain lived, (history), but that might take away from the glamor of Zhao Yun, so that might not be a good thing.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:32 am
by Stedfel
I would have to say it is the 'Tearful Act'. When he surrendered Shu, he still had some dignity, but incident lowered to a point where I didn't realize you could have so little dignity or honor.