who is the most fearless warrior

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most fearless warrior

Poll ended at Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:50 am

lu bu
4
25%
zhao yun
4
25%
xiahou dun
0
No votes
huang gai
1
6%
dian wei
4
25%
other (go on...surprise me!!)
3
19%
 
Total votes : 16

Unread postby goldenchild » Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:26 pm

dong zhuo:

yes zhao yun was fighting all day before he had to fight those generals. lu bu wasnt fighting all day. he was challenged to a few duels, fought them one on one, and won, and then he fought the brothers. now i can admit that the guys zhao fought wasnt as good as the brothers but u have to remember that zhao was a old man. lu bu couldnt even take down zhang fei when they were fighting alone. now im not saying that running was cowardly cause i strongly believe in living to fight another day. but ur making it seem like lu bu was fighting in the middle of a war fighting hundreds of soldiers and then in comes zhang fei. it didnt happen like that. he killed i think 3 generals, then gongsun zan tried and within seconds ran away and then zhang fei jumps in to challenge him.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:25 pm

goldenchild wrote:dong zhuo:

yes zhao yun was fighting all day before he had to fight those generals. lu bu wasnt fighting all day. he was challenged to a few duels, fought them one on one, and won, and then he fought the brothers. now i can admit that the guys zhao fought wasnt as good as the brothers but u have to remember that zhao was a old man. lu bu couldnt even take down zhang fei when they were fighting alone. now im not saying that running was cowardly cause i strongly believe in living to fight another day. but ur making it seem like lu bu was fighting in the middle of a war fighting hundreds of soldiers and then in comes zhang fei. it didnt happen like that. he killed i think 3 generals, then gongsun zan tried and within seconds ran away and then zhang fei jumps in to challenge him.


I don't recall the fight before hand*shrugs* Lu Bu fought duels and they take effort but here we go
The steed with the flowing mane was urged in at an angle, and now Lu Bu had to contend with three surrounding warriors at whom he struck one after another, and they at him, the flashing of the warriors' weapons looking like the revolving lamps suspended at the new year. And the warriors of the eight armies gazed rapt with amazement at such a battle.

But Lu Bu's guard began to weaken and fatigue seized him. Looking hard in the face of Liu Bei, Lu Bu feigned a fierce thrust thus making Liu Bei suddenly draw back. Then, lowering his halberd, Lu Bu dashed through the angle thus opened and got away.


8 enemy armies there and he was tired. Lu Bu can't win, he will probably die so he falls back to his own army.

Zhao Yun was an old man? So? It wasn't like Yuan Shao where age had an effect on mental ability. Sure Yun may be slightly worse compared to his peak but Yun did well in killing 5 minor officers one after the other.

On thinking, LGZ loves duels
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Unread postby simple » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:51 pm

Sang wrote:
simple wrote:How would anyone knows whether Zhao Yun met any enemies at Chang Ban Bo? SGZ didn't state that he did but also didn't state that he didn't.

If you were a historian, would you leave that part out or put it in the text books to give Zhao Yun credit?

simple wrote:What were the chances that he didn't met any?

100 out of 0.



If I not wrong, Shu didn't had a historian to record down the facts at that time. Beside, he was the lone fighter, if he didn't talked abt it, no on else in the Shu camp would knew what had happened. And Cao's generals would might had the outing tone down since they couldn't even kill a general running with a baby and a lady with 5k elite troops.

Zhang Liao using 800 troops against 10k emenies, I believe either they overstated the emenies or understated their own troops. Look at the Korean war, US had the advance weapons but when they were faced with the emeny whom out numbered them 10-1, needless to say who won? I guess at Chang Ban, Zhao Yun was lucky, cos I think he met a small pocket of emenies time to time thus didn't had to out numbered greatly.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:58 pm

Shu bio's are rathersmall and less detialed which is a pity.

um for the record, I belive it was 8,000 vs 100,000. Of course ZZhang Liao's raid didn't win the battle, lack of supplies/epidemic did. Yun might have faced a soldeir or two but not a squad or any officer at the ready, thats my guess anyway.
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Unread postby Elitemsh » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:23 pm

I do not think Zhang Liao could be called the most fearless but perhaps the one with the most willpower. The defense at He Fei showed courage, however I think it showed more how much a determined general Zhang Liao was. Historically, the Steepslope rescue of Liu Shan and the wives would not be the deed to prove Zhao Yun was fearless. I think the ambush of Cao's troops would be the main accomplishment of Zhao Yun's which would put him in contention of being the most fearless. I do not think Pang Tong has been mentioned as a possibilty, his exchange of his horse for Liu Bei's ''cursed'' horse may have been quite a brave deed (it did lead to his death), though I am not sure if this is true historically.
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Unread postby goldenchild » Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:45 pm

Dong Zhuo,

u said it urself. 8 enemy armies were watching the fight. Watching. not Fighting. they all sat back while the brothers fought him. lu bu only got fatigue while fighting them, not before he fought them.

u seem to really put a downgrade on zhao. now u seem to think that zhao's accomplishment in killing those generals were nuthin. lu bu was in his prime and couldnt even make a dent in zhang fei alone. zhao was old, way out of his prime and managed to do what he did.

in the novel it states that lu bu dueled one general after another and did it without much dificulty. zhao yun was in the middle of a war himself and fought in the war before being challenged by that officer. and of course once his sons saw their father die they challenged him too and every last one of them failed. what did lu bu do that was so great besides hold his own against the 3 brothers?
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:40 pm

u said it urself. 8 enemy armies were watching the fight. Watching. not Fighting. they all sat back while the brothers fought him. lu bu only got fatigue while fighting them, not before he fought them.


well done, you have spotted a flaw in the story, it was unlikly 8 armies would juts sit there and let glory escape them. Nice plot device though

Lu Bu is now tried after duelling, two inexpirence strong men against each other turning into 2-1 then 3-1. Lu Bu has no choice but to withdraw or can he win against 3 men skilled in fighting and the 8 armies that can come after?

u seem to really put a downgrade on zhao. now u seem to think that zhao's accomplishment in killing those generals were nuthin. lu bu was in his prime and couldnt even make a dent in zhang fei alone. zhao was old, way out of his prime and managed to do what he did.


Lu Bu hardly had any expirence either for what I can tell. Still in the Novel: Yun is a loyal(ignoring his defection from Yuan Shao), fighter who does well when given generalship. No flaw either History: I just don't rate him too highly, useful and solid but very good.

I think you rate killing people while momentum is on your side as well as expirence and skill(for Yun is the perfect warrior in the novel, does he ever lose?) plus what man duels so many? I'm anti duelling in a way

what did lu bu do that was so great besides hold his own against the 3 brothers?


Defeat Zhang Yan, Cao Ren and Cao Cao. Scaring Yuan Shao's generals, resigning with honour from the man. Hold out in Xu for two years. Not controlling the emp is a bonus. The halberd thing, coping with the loss of two good advisors to betrayal. Magnamity to Liu Bei. He doesn't seem to have been bad to the people either
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Unread postby roleblackman » Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:00 pm

Sun Ce has my vote.
Give me the Angus!
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Unread postby Lord Bio » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:44 am

roleblackman wrote:Sun Ce has my vote.


While I agree that Sun Ce could be considered a fearless warrior, can you please elaborate further roleblackman? The reason I ask is to see your opinion why, as Sun Ce really hasn't been discussed before in this thread. While there certainly are many reasons he could be considered a fearless warrior, please illustrate them, and please tell us if you are speaking from a historical (SGZ) or novel (SGYY) standpoint.
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And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And it's name it said on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.
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Unread postby Khayman » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:25 pm

Sun Ce did not live nearly long enough to be considered the most fearless warrior of the times, so I come back to my Huang Zhong.

But as in my few months away from the forum Zhao Yun has taken such a bashing, I'll change my vote to him :wink:
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