Cai Wenji

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Unread postby beautyspot » Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:23 am

Cai Wenji is real love of Cao Cao.
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Unread postby Erdrick » Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:39 am

Seven at One Stroke wrote:Wang Yun ordered Cai Yong's execution for mourning Dong Zhuo's death. Liu Bei was a nobody back then. Guan Yu killed Cai Yang during his journey back to Liu Bei.


D'oh! Went and got Yong and Yang mixed up... But, it would then be Cai Yang that Liu Bei killed, (Guan didn't do that one- just in the novel).


Lady Wu wrote:
Da_Chicago_Jigalo wrote:O haha, sorry, i'm not good with chinese names.

No worries, I just thought more people would be able to help giving information if the spelling is right. :D

The book did say that Cao Cao heard about the poems and that was one reason why he ransomed Cai Wenji (also known as Cai Yan). He had her remarry one Mr Dong (forgot his given name, heh), and indeed, as Sima Hui pointed out, she was mentioned in the chapter where Cao Cao marched toward Hanzhong.


The book being the SGYY, or the SGZ? I don't remember it, (it being Mengde's appreication of Wenji's poetry), in CC's bio, or Cai Yan's HHS mentioning, but I do mess up sometimes, (see above...) I do remember seeing the mention of wanting to help his friend's/acquaintance's family continue on, if "only" through the female lineage.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:10 am

Hmm, my memory is hazy, and not having my books with me over the summer, I may be totally wrong. However, I vaguely remember some line saying "作胡笳十八拍, 流傳中土,操憐而贖之" ("she wrote the 18 Songs for the Foreign Flute, which circulated to the central lands. Cao Cao loved it/felt pity and ransomed her"). 憐 can mean either love or pity (the more modern meaning), so I had thought that it referred to the poems. But like I said, my memory is untrustworthy, and the only thing I made an effort to memorize in SGYY/SGZ are the Zhuge Liang memorials. So I may be totally wrong, heh.
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Unread postby Erdrick » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:28 am

Well, in all honesty, its probably some combination of the two... Cao Cao never seemed the type to be, how should I say, altruistic? I do definitely remember the acquaintance/friendship angle, but probably the poetry, (which was somewhat/completely mournful, if my memory serves), helped him to give a flying fig about his acq/fr's daughter. I mean, you have to admit, the man and his family loved the poetry...


And- just because- All you have do is say that there are five lights...


:lol:
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:58 am

Erdrick wrote:And- just because- All you have do is say that there are five lights...

There are four lights! There are four lights!

Ahem...

Does anyone know if Ms Cai had kids with her new hubby?
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Unread postby Seven at One Stroke » Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:02 am

HHS never mentions the specific set of music she composed (Hu Jia Shi Ba Pai), but it does contain two sets of poems written by Cai Yan (filed under "Dong Si's Wife").

The quote Lady Wu mentioned came from the novel.
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Unread postby Erdrick » Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:32 am

Lady Wu wrote:
Erdrick wrote:And- just because- All you have do is say that there are five lights...

There are four lights! There are four lights!



No, there are five. And you know you see them too :wink: (ah, Madred never held a candle to the plain, simple one... but still)


Not sure... I mean, we know she had at least two children, (and I believe there was at least one from the first marriage), but with Dong Dong? Not 100% either way.
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Unread postby Seven at One Stroke » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:18 pm

She had 0 children with her first husband, two with the Xiongnu prince. There's no mention of her having any children with Dong Si.

There's a TV series called "Cao Cao and Cai Wengji" (or something like that), which is a fictional story about the love between the two I believe.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:47 pm

Erdrick wrote:No, there are five. And you know you see them too :wink: (ah, Madred never held a candle to the plain, simple one... but still.

Resistance is futile! There are four lights! (Ok, I know I'm getting Borgs and Cardassians and whatnot mixed up, bleh...)

Seven at One Stroke wrote:There's a TV series called "Cao Cao and Cai Wengji" (or something like that), which is a fictional story about the love between the two I believe.

Ah, that explains an earlier comment about Cao Cao and Cai Wenji. Thank you for the info.
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Unread postby Da_Chicago_Jigalo » Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:28 am

Heh, see this is another part where Kessen 2 destorys the real Three Kingdoms Story. In Kessen 2, she was the leader of the Xiong Nu who was ordered by Cao Cao to fight Liu Bei.
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