Cai Wenji

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Cai Wenji

Unread postby Da_Chicago_Jigalo » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:08 am

Cai Whengi, the only time I have heard of her was in Kessen 2. What I want to know is was she real. And what was her role in China?

ModEdit: Fixed spelling in subject title. ~LW
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:57 pm

Sounds like that poetess who was sent to the Xiong Nu.
Cao Cao eventually paid her ransom and she returned to China.
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Unread postby Sima Hui » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:04 pm

Cai Yan (Wengi) was the daughter of Privy Counselor Cai Yong. She was a famous poetess who was captured by the Xiongnu and became a concubine to Liu Bao, King of the Xiongnu. She bore two sons among them and wrote "Eighteen Songs for a Foreign Flute" whilst living with Liu Bao. Cao Cao loved the poems and ordered gold sent in exchange for her return. She was returned and Cao Cao gave her in marrige to Dong Si. According to SGYY, Cao Cao visited her on the way to do battle with Liu Bei at Hanzhong.

Hope this helps! :wink:
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Unread postby Erdrick » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:29 am

Actually, it didn't have squat to do with the poems- they were simply a bonus. Cao Cao and Cai Yong were on friendly terms, until he was killed, (one of Liu Bei's unfortunate acts- sigh). Therefore, on learning that his only child was alive, he ordered her returned, paid the price, and arranged her marriage. Oh, and its Cai Wenji, or in a few texts, Cai Zhaoji, (not sure if its just a radical variation or error- haven't seen the original texts and therefore characters)
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Unread postby Sima Hui » Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:41 pm

Erdrick wrote:Actually, it didn't have squat to do with the poems- they were simply a bonus. Cao Cao and Cai Yong were on friendly terms, until he was killed, (one of Liu Bei's unfortunate acts- sigh). Therefore, on learning that his only child was alive, he ordered her returned, paid the price, and arranged her marriage. Oh, and its Cai Wenji, or in a few texts, Cai Zhaoji, (not sure if its just a radical variation or error- haven't seen the original texts and therefore characters)


What do you mean by one of Liu Bei's acts? And thanks for clearing up the poems thing.
Last edited by Sima Hui on Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby dengai » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:25 pm

Cai Wengi? I've never heard of her, when does she appear?
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Unread postby Erdrick » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:00 am

Sima Hui wrote:
Erdrick wrote:Actually, it didn't have squat to do with the poems- they were simply a bonus. Cao Cao and Cai Yong were on friendly terms, until he was killed, (one of Liu Bei's unfortunate acts- sigh). Therefore, on learning that his only child was alive, he ordered her returned, paid the price, and arranged her marriage. Oh, and its Cai Wenji, or in a few texts, Cai Zhaoji, (not sure if its just a radical variation or error- haven't seen the original texts and therefore characters)


What do you mean by one of Liu Bei's acts? And thanks for clearing up the poems thing.


Well, Liu Bei killed Cai Yong historically- I forget off the top of my head if it was during or right after he was with Yuan Shao... (I believe he appeared in the novel as one of the people Guan Yu slew on the way out of Cao Cao's service... or was that Cai Yang...?) I think he was a scholar who has a political post, running a district or a province; anyway, Xuande killed him, ergo, Mengde set up her marriage after he found out 1) she was alive and 2) got her back to non-barbarian lands.


dengai wrote:Cai Wengi? I've never heard of her, when does she appear?


Cai Yan, style Wenji (Zhaoji), was a poetess who... well, says in Sima Hui's earlier post- she was returned to China proper in 207, and had been kidnapped in 194/6? Sometime around then, by one of the northern barbarian tribes. She was mentioned in passing in the novel, and was indeed a historic personage. (They did love their poets, didn't they?)
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Unread postby Seven at One Stroke » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:34 am

Wang Yun ordered Cai Yong's execution for mourning Dong Zhuo's death. Liu Bei was a nobody back then. Guan Yu killed Cai Yang during his journey back to Liu Bei.
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yo

Unread postby Da_Chicago_Jigalo » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:43 pm

"ModEdit: Fixed spelling in subject title. ~LW"


O haha, sorry, i'm not good with chinese names.
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Re: yo

Unread postby Lady Wu » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:52 pm

Da_Chicago_Jigalo wrote:O haha, sorry, i'm not good with chinese names.

No worries, I just thought more people would be able to help giving information if the spelling is right. :D

The book did say that Cao Cao heard about the poems and that was one reason why he ransomed Cai Wenji (also known as Cai Yan). He had her remarry one Mr Dong (forgot his given name, heh), and indeed, as Sima Hui pointed out, she was mentioned in the chapter where Cao Cao marched toward Hanzhong.
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