If you were Ling Tong...

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Re: If you were Ling Tong...

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:44 am

I personally don't think too many people dislike Cao Cao for trying to avenge his father's death. I think it was more the clogging rivers with the bodies of several towns worth of men, women, children, and pets which people find bothersome. :P

I think Ling Tong is pefectly reasonable for hating Gan Ning even without Gan Ning being a horrible person. Cao Pi hated Zhang Xiu for example for being responsible for his brother's death, didn't seem to mind Jia Xu though. Trying to kill Gan Ning would have been a reasonable response as long as Ling Tong didn't depopulate an entire Province trying to accomplish it :lol:
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Re: If you were Ling Tong...

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:20 pm

Sun Fin wrote:Yeah, I agree with Dong. I know filial loyalty was important, but so was loyalty to one's Lord. The one other example in the novel I can think of where someone picked their mother other their Lord was Xu Shu and that decision wasn't portrayed particularly positively?


In the novel, Xu Shu is portrayed as a filial but tricked by evil Cao Cao and Cheng Yu so yeah, it isn't overly positive.
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Re: If you were Ling Tong...

Unread postby Xu Huang fan » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:20 am

Dong Zhou wrote:
Sun Fin wrote:Yeah, I agree with Dong. I know filial loyalty was important, but so was loyalty to one's Lord. The one other example in the novel I can think of where someone picked their mother other their Lord was Xu Shu and that decision wasn't portrayed particularly positively?


In the novel, Xu Shu is portrayed as a filial but tricked by evil Cao Cao and Cheng Yu so yeah, it isn't overly positive.


both of those are very true now that i think of it, parts like that make me wonder what kind of lens the novel was written under, cause its like this mix of a shu lens, but it also likes to poke fun at certain parts of the era which were acceptable at the time.

then you have the author writing about liu bei's baby touchdown which never happened in history and i'm just confused on from what perspective i'm suppose to be reading this thing from.
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Re: If you were Ling Tong...

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:20 am

Xu Huang fan wrote:
both of those are very true now that i think of it, parts like that make me wonder what kind of lens the novel was written under, cause its like this mix of a shu lens, but it also likes to poke fun at certain parts of the era which were acceptable at the time.

then you have the author writing about liu bei's baby touchdown which never happened in history and i'm just confused on from what perspective i'm suppose to be reading this thing from.


I don't think the intent was to poke fun.

1) The novel does back filial piety (just as long as it isn't listening to woman, then it can be a bit "Mumma's boy!"), example it makes certain to have Jiang Wei's mother also come to Shu rather then be left behind in Wei as it was a big criticism of the historical Jiang Wei. However "parent vs family" line is always complex, novel takes a stance while it could use to make Xu Shu's defection a tragedy and an example of Cao Cao's wickedness. While the mother becomes a useful figure to set out why Cao Cao is evil becuase kidnap is not enough.

2) What the touchdown is supposed to be seen as "wow, Liu Bei put the life of his own general above his eldest son. He really does care for his men", it just comes across really really badly now.
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Re: If you were Ling Tong...

Unread postby Xu Huang fan » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:14 pm

the first point makes alot of sense, second point i already knew about, but its definitely one of the ways that the novel as much as i love it, doesn't age too well.
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