Lu Bu: Smart or Cowardly?

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Was Lu Bu a coward?

Yes
16
26%
No
45
74%
 
Total votes : 61

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:12 am

Dong Zhou wrote:LBWG, I agree with most of your points and will only say that according to the ZZTJ, Zhang Fei executed popular offical Cao Bao and the people rioted.


Now that you mention it i did hear that from someone. However is this considered to be trully historical or is it just a story?

Cao Bao was a general in the service of Tao Qian originally i believe. I think in Cao Cao's SGZ it mentions that when he invaded Xu he defeated a force led by Liu Bei and Cao Bao that Tao Qian sent to defend Xiao Pei. That is basicly all i know of him.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:06 am

The sources for the Zhang Fei executing and then riots include Lu Bu's HHS, Lu Bu's SGZ, Mi Zhu's SGZ and Liu Bei's SGZ.
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Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:21 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:The sources for the Zhang Fei executing and then riots include Lu Bu's HHS, Lu Bu's SGZ, Mi Zhu's SGZ and Liu Bei's SGZ.


Well it is not in Lu Bu's, Mi Zhu's nor Liu Bei's SGZ bios. The only one that even mentions Cao Bao is Liu Bei's in the notes. The notes say that Zhang Fei wanted to kill Cao Bao. Cao Bao didn't go anywhere but sent for Lu Bu for help which prompted Lu Bu's attack. Nothing about Zhang Fei actually killing him nor riots. I don't have access to Lu Bu's HHS though.
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Unread postby JamesD » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:10 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:The sources for the Zhang Fei executing and then riots include Lu Bu's HHS, Lu Bu's SGZ, Mi Zhu's SGZ and Liu Bei's SGZ.


Also the translation of To Esablish Peace says Zhang Fei and Cao Bao had a falling out, ZHang Fei killed him, people opened the gates, Lu Bu's forces take over.

Interesting enough were debating this on the Koei forum.
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Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:44 am

JamesD wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:The sources for the Zhang Fei executing and then riots include Lu Bu's HHS, Lu Bu's SGZ, Mi Zhu's SGZ and Liu Bei's SGZ.


Also the translation of To Esablish Peace says Zhang Fei and Cao Bao had a falling out, ZHang Fei killed him, people opened the gates, Lu Bu's forces take over.

Interesting enough were debating this on the Koei forum.


Odd that the SGZs never mention that he died. I assume if this is true then this would have been after Cao Bao called Lu Bu and when Zhang Fei realized that Cao Bao asked Lu Bu to attack him. It would have to be that way in order for the people to let Lu Bu in in response to Cao Bao's death.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:11 am

Did he do that? I think Yuan Shu sent a letter to Lu Bu but that may have been before or after the taking of Xu, I'm not sure
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Unread postby JamesD » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:11 pm

Heres a link, take a look http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/decr ... _part5.pdf

Read it for a while, then you will see the part with Cao Bao.
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Unread postby Liu Bei228 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:04 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Did he do that? I think Yuan Shu sent a letter to Lu Bu but that may have been before or after the taking of Xu, I'm not sure

Your half right, the letter seems to say that he will supply Lu Bu if he attacks Liu Bei but, seems to talk as if the attack already had taken place. I recall someone told Lu Bu to attack, I think it was.. Xu Dan/Duan the gate captian who let him in.
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Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:15 pm

JamesD wrote:Heres a link, take a look http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/decr ... _part5.pdf

Read it for a while, then you will see the part with Cao Bao.


Odd how that directly contradicts SGZ which says that Cao Bao was the one who called for Lu Bu. Plus SGZ says that Yuan Shu asked Lu Bu to attack Liu Bei after this all happened when Liu Bei was in Xiao Pei. Very odd.
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Unread postby Liu Bei228 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:25 pm

I know what you mean, sometimes people look in to deep to me and end up taking a simple answer and making it distorted with some many sources, like the massacre by Cao Cao.
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