Who would Sun Jian serve?

[Separation Anxiety]

I am going to propose a highly theoretic question. If Sun Jian had not gotten killed, then who would he have served as he did not seem to be a warlord, but certainly had the ability. Also, if he did serve someone such as Yuan Shu, would that leader have lasted longer, and if that rulers demise came while Sun served him do you think he would have went to Liu Bei or Cao Cao in the end?

As for me, I think he would serve Yuan Shu, but notice he is not being put to his best use and went out to either serve Cao Cao, who would actually use him, or start his own kingdom as he had the generals already.

[White Horse General]

he had the Imperial Seal. Not a chance in hell he would serve under anyone while he had his own army and that. Sun Jian was going to eventually make a bid for the imperial throne.

[LiuBeiwasGreat]

I am going to propose a highly theoretic question. If Sun Jian had not gotten killed, then who would he have served as he did not seem to be a warlord, but certainly had the ability. Also, if he did serve someone such as Yuan Shu, would that leader have lasted longer, and if that rulers demise came while Sun served him do you think he would have went to Liu Bei or Cao Cao in the end?

As for me, I think he would serve Yuan Shu, but notice he is not being put to his best use and went out to either serve Cao Cao, who would actually use him, or start his own kingdom as he had the generals already.

If you are talking novel wise then he will try to become emperor and expand out of Chang Sha.

History wise he would contiue to serve Yuan Shu until Shu declared himself emperor. After that he would most likely leave and i could see him joining Cao Cao since Cao Cao did seem to be the lagitimate Han power in the area.

[football11f]

I am going to propose a highly theoretic question. If Sun Jian had not gotten killed, then who would he have served as he did not seem to be a warlord, but certainly had the ability. Also, if he did serve someone such as Yuan Shu, would that leader have lasted longer, and if that rulers demise came while Sun served him do you think he would have went to Liu Bei or Cao Cao in the end?

As for me, I think he would serve Yuan Shu, but notice he is not being put to his best use and went out to either serve Cao Cao, who would actually use him, or start his own kingdom as he had the generals already.

If you are talking novel wise then he will try to become emperor and expand out of Chang Sha.

History wise he would contiue to serve Yuan Shu until Shu declared himself emperor. After that he would most likely leave and i could see him joining Cao Cao since Cao Cao did seem to be the lagitimate Han power in the area.

If I am not mistaken Yuan SHu only declared himself emperor after he had gotten ahold of the imperial seal.

I think Sun Jian would have definately continued to be his own master. Liu Biao would have fallen (It was Sun Jian's death that saved him) and that would have given Sun Jian enormous power.

Now the question comes whether or not SUn Jian would use the seal and declare himself emperor. I think he would not have used the seal the same way Yuan Shu did for I think Sun Jian had higher morale standards than Yuan Shu. I think he would have been in many wars with Cao Cao because his position would have been near Cao Cao's.

My opinions at least.

[LiuBeiwasGreat]

I am going to propose a highly theoretic question. If Sun Jian had not gotten killed, then who would he have served as he did not seem to be a warlord, but certainly had the ability. Also, if he did serve someone such as Yuan Shu, would that leader have lasted longer, and if that rulers demise came while Sun served him do you think he would have went to Liu Bei or Cao Cao in the end?

As for me, I think he would serve Yuan Shu, but notice he is not being put to his best use and went out to either serve Cao Cao, who would actually use him, or start his own kingdom as he had the generals already.

If you are talking novel wise then he will try to become emperor and expand out of Chang Sha.

History wise he would contiue to serve Yuan Shu until Shu declared himself emperor. After that he would most likely leave and i could see him joining Cao Cao since Cao Cao did seem to be the lagitimate Han power in the area.

If I am not mistaken Yuan SHu only declared himself emperor after he had gotten ahold of the imperial seal.

I think Sun Jian would have definately continued to be his own master. Liu Biao would have fallen (It was Sun Jian's death that saved him) and that would have given Sun Jian enormous power.

Now the question comes whether or not SUn Jian would use the seal and declare himself emperor. I think he would not have used the seal the same way Yuan Shu did for I think Sun Jian had higher morale standards than Yuan Shu. I think he would have been in many wars with Cao Cao because his position would have been near Cao Cao's.

My opinions at least.

Since we are talking about the novel then i agree with most of what you say. Sun Jian might not declare himself emperor right away i think that he would try to extablish a foothold by taking all of Jing first before declaring himself emperor. Remember Cheng Pu said that his finding the imperial seal means that Sun Jian will become emperor and Sun Jian was happy with this statement. He would become emperor and most likely the same thing would happen to him as to when Yuan Shu did it. He would be attacked by everyone and killed.

Historicly Yuan Shu had the imperial seal for quite a while before delcaring himself emperor, since he had gotten it from Sun Jian and not Sun Ce.

[football11f]

I thought Sun Ce gave Yuan Shu the imperial seal in order to gain troops and his independence?

[LiuBeiwasGreat]

I thought Sun Ce gave Yuan Shu the imperial seal in order to gain troops and his independence?

Yeah in the novel this happened. Sun Ce took those few thousand troops took out Liu Ye (or however his name is spelled) After that manged to get several tens of thousands of troops and went on to conquer a chunk of Yang.

In history Yuan Shu sent Sun Ce as reinforcements to help out his forces attacking Liu Ye and after Sun Ce won he went to take over the chunk of land in Yang south of the Yang Xie (i am horrible with spelling these things as you realize) for Yuan Shu. After that pretty much Sun Ce stopped listening to Yuan Shu and when Yuan Shu was killed Sun Ce was on his own with his land.

[King_Ilze]

I think Sun Jian would continue to serve under Yuan Shu or possibly Yuan Shao but only for a short while. After he gains more popularity and prospers, he would become emperor with the imperial seal. Of course, Sun Jian would partake in battles with rulers such as Cao Cao and Liu Yan. I am, of course, talking about the novel.

In true history(which I am not quite as familiar with) I think he would continue serving Yuan Shu but would eventually leave Shu's forces. More than likely, he'd join Cao Cao or some other ruler who rises up. I think Jian would choose Cao Cao unless someone with equal strength appeared who had the same moral values as Jian, which would have been highly unlikely.

If Sun Jian had lived, it would have strongly changed history and the novel, the fall of Liu Biao for one.