Huang Zhong and Guan Yu

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Huang Zhong and Guan Yu

Unread postby King_Ilze » Mon May 10, 2004 3:03 am

What exactly was up with Huang Zhong and Guan Yu. I've read about what had occured between the two but I dont quite understand. Here is what I thought happened:

Huang Zhong joined Liu Bei's forces and eventually, Liu Bei appointed Huang Zhong to a high position. Guan Yu didnt think someone so old should be put in a rank that was equal to his own so he got mad and I think the two fought and Huang Zhong was victorious.

I am sure that is off so could someone explain this to me?
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Unread postby Elemental » Mon May 10, 2004 4:00 am

I don't recall them fighting in SGYY. However, when Huang Zhong was appointed the fourth tiger general, Guan Yu became slightly jealous and angry, because he didn't think an old man deserved such high recognition. But the messenger explained to Guan Yu why Huang Zhong should be a tiger general, and everything was sorted out.
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Re: Huang Zhong and Guan Yu

Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Mon May 10, 2004 4:20 am

King_Ilze wrote:Huang Zhong joined Liu Bei's forces and eventually, Liu Bei appointed Huang Zhong to a high position. Guan Yu didnt think someone so old should be put in a rank that was equal to his own so he got mad and I think the two fought and Huang Zhong was victorious.

I am sure that is off so could someone explain this to me?


Neither historically or novel-wise did Huang Zhong ever fight Guan Yu and really win. What happened in history was that Guan Yu heard that Huang Zhong was appointed a rank equal to his own and reacted very arrogantly and ignorantly towards the news, exclaiming something to the effect of what you've posted. I believe Guan Yu was stationed in Jingzhou at the time and was thus not around to witness or be aware of Huang Zhong's contributions to Shu. Eventually, the misunderstanding was cleared up and there is no evidence of any real animosity between the two generals.
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Unread postby Morg » Mon May 10, 2004 3:19 pm

Elemental wrote:I don't recall them fighting in SGYY.

They fight in Chapter 53 when Huang Zhong is first introduced. During their first duel they draw, during the second Guan Yu spares Huang Zhong when Huang is thrown from his horse. The next day, Huang Zhong repays the favour when he deliberately misses Guan Yu with an arrow shot. Huang Zhong is accused of being a traitor and goes over to Shu.
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Unread postby Li Zhen » Mon May 10, 2004 6:54 pm

How can Guan Yu argue that Huang Zhong is undeserving of a such a rank, since he dueled him fairly and could not win. Falling off his horse is hardly Huang Zhong's fault, and would be equated by deliberately missing Guan Yu when he shot an arrow on the following day.

Also, Guan Yu's rank is till higher since he was head of the five tigers.

Where in the novel are the 5 tigers created? I assumed it was after Liu Bei took Cheng Du, but I cannot find the part.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Mon May 10, 2004 7:00 pm

Xu Chao wrote:Where in the novel are the 5 tigers created? I assumed it was after Liu Bei took Cheng Du, but I cannot find the part.

Chapter 73, when Liu Bei assumed the title of Prince of Hanzhong.
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Unread postby King_Ilze » Mon May 10, 2004 9:09 pm

Ah, I see. This has definatly cleared things up.

Xu Chao said:
How can Guan Yu argue that Huang Zhong is undeserving of a such a rank, since he dueled him fairly and could not win. Falling off his horse is hardly Huang Zhong's fault, and would be equated by deliberately missing Guan Yu when he shot an arrow on the following day.


Guan Yu is a very proud man and I beleive his pride sometimes causes him to be ignorant. When a old man was appointed to a position that was nearly equal with his own, he was shocked and angered that someone of that age and someone whome, to Yu, did nothing for Shu. Later, Guan Yu found out what Huang Zhong had done for the kingdom and accepted Huang Zhong.
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Unread postby Elemental » Mon May 10, 2004 11:50 pm

Morg wrote:
Elemental wrote:I don't recall them fighting in SGYY.

They fight in Chapter 53 when Huang Zhong is first introduced. During their first duel they draw, during the second Guan Yu spares Huang Zhong when Huang is thrown from his horse. The next day, Huang Zhong repays the favour when he deliberately misses Guan Yu with an arrow shot. Huang Zhong is accused of being a traitor and goes over to Shu.


I was referring to when they were both among Shu ranks. But yes, you are correct- they did fight when Huang Zhong was introduced.
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Unread postby Elven Fury » Tue May 11, 2004 12:43 am

Yes if they fought and Huang Zhong and Guan Yu come to a draw after over a hundred bouts, a couple of times, then why was Guan Yu so jelous of such a great warrior, even close to an equal, of such age as he should have had alot of respect for him... what was his problem then?
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Unread postby Lu Wei » Tue May 11, 2004 1:17 am

Actually, Huang Zhong could be considered better because the horse was not caused by Guan Yu (and therfore was simply bad luck) while the arrow was caused by Huang Zhong (and therefore based on his superior skill).
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