Chen Deng

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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby GuoBia » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:00 am

I found something interesting about him in a book.

"Chen Yuanlong was a hero from the Three Kingdoms period (third century C.E.), who refused to observe the normal protocol for a host in sleeping arrangements, taking the superior position in the front of the bed for himself and relegating his guest to the inferior position at the foot of the bed." p214 Judith T. Zeitlin, found in "Under Confucian Eyes" under "Two Ghost Stories by Pu Songling."

I can't say whether or not this is folklore or history. Maybe someone has a better idea?
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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby Xu Yuan » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:34 pm

Ah Lady Wu, would you still have Liu Bei and co. discussing Chen Deng's character? I would love to see what Liu Bei actually thought of the fellow.
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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby Lady Wu » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:52 pm

Oh dear, that was so long ago. I don't even remember I had said that. :oops:

I wonder whose biography it'd be in...

PS: Found it. In Lu Bu's. Will translate in a bit.

陈登者,字元龙,在广陵有威名。又掎角吕布有功,加伏波将军,年三十九卒。后许汜与刘备并在荆州牧刘表坐,表与备共论天下人,汜曰:“陈元龙湖海之士,豪气不除。”备谓表曰:“许君论是非?”表曰:“欲言非,此君为善士,不宜虚言;欲言是,元龙名重天下。”备问汜:“君言豪,宁有事邪?”汜曰:“昔遭乱过下邳,见元龙。元龙无客主之意,久不相与语,自上大床卧,使客卧下床。”备曰:“君有国士之名,今天下大乱,帝主失所,望君忧国忘家,有救世之意,而君求田问舍,言无可采,是元龙所讳也,何缘当与君语?如小人,欲卧百尺楼上,卧君於地,何但上下床之间邪?”表大笑。备因言曰:“若元龙文武胆志,当求之於古耳,造次难得比也。”
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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby GuoBia » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:11 am

If you try to push that through Google translate, you get weird stuff like "Yu Yan Fei, Walking for the good person, not a bubble," "Yuan Lung-free guest master of Italy," and "when Qiu Zhiyu ancient ears, rash rare than people." I think that this translation is faulty. XD
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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby Lady Wu » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:18 am

Really? Google Translate gave me this:

"Chen Deng who, character dragon, in a Wal Guangling. Lu Bu then drag angle active, plus Fubo General, thirty nine died. Xu and Liu Bei after the creek and Liu Biao in Jingzhou, animal husbandry, to sit on the table and prepare people of the world total..."

Edit: Ok ok for real now.

There are two terms I'm not sure how to translate, so I'll put a note here.

湖海之士 "a man from the lakes and seas"--referring to itinerants and wanderers who live outside the regular social system
豪气 "free-spirited nature"--including traits like being forthright, liberal, individualistic, willful, doing things one's own way instead of following social norms, assertive and rough, etc. Kinda like a cowboy personality. It's a personality that was not held in high regard in polite society (which valued things like following social protocols, being polite and accommodating, treating people with courtesy, etc.).

---

Chen Deng, styled Yuanlong, was of great fame in Guangling. For his merits in cornering Lu Bu, the rank of "General who Pacifies Turmoil" was granted to him. He died at the age of 39.

In later days, Xu Si and Liu Bei were visiting Liu Biao, Protector of Jingzhou. Liu Biao and Liu Bei were evaluating personages of the realm. Xu Si said, "Chen Yuanlong is a man of the lakes and seas, and kept something of his free-spirited nature." Liu Bei said to Liu Biao, "Is Master Xu's opinion correct or not?" Liu Biao said, "I want to say no, but he is a virtuous person and would not speak falsely. But I can't say yes either, since Yuanlong is respected through the realm."

Liu Bei asked Xu Si, "You said he was a free spirit. What's the story behind that?"

Xu Si said, "Once I was escaping from warfare, and passing by Xiapi I went to visit Yuanlong. Yuanlong, not observing the protocol for being a host, did not talk to me for the longest time. He slept on the main couch and had his guest sleep on the lower couch."

Liu Bei said, "Sir, you are known as one able to be a king's minister. In these days, the world is in turmoil and the emperor has been taken from where he should be. We all hope that you would set your thoughts on protecting the nation and saving the world. However, you only made small talk and there was nothing worthwhile in your speech. That is precisely the thing Yuanlong detested most. Why then would he converse with you? If he were a lesser man, he would sleep on a higher floor, and have you sleep on the ground; he wouldn't have limited himself to the difference between the main couch and a lower couch!"

Liu Biao laughed. At that, Liu Bei said, "Yuanlong's abilities, courage, and ambition are comparable only to those of the heroes of yore. It's not easy to find a man that is his match."
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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby GuoBia » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:48 am

Oh, I got that too. I just took out the parts that I thought were funniest. XD

"Chen Deng who, character dragon, in a Wal Guangling. Lu Bu then drag angle active, plus Fubo General, thirty nine died. Xu and Liu Bei after the creek and Liu Biao in Jingzhou, animal husbandry, to sit on the table and prepare people of the world total, Bom said: "Chen Yuanlong lakes of disabilities, pride is not removed." Prepared statement that said: "Xu Jun of right and wrong?" Table reads : "Yu Yan Fei, Walking for the good person, not a bubble; freely their opinion that the name of weight Yuan Lung world." Bom prepared to ask: "Jun Yan Hao, Ning something evil?" Bom said: "Xi Xia Pi had been chaotic, See Yuan Long. Yuan Lung-free guest master of Italy, eventually becoming phase and language, since lying on the bed, so 客卧 bed. "prepare said:" Monarch has the name of the country who, under today's chaos, loss of the Imperial Lord, hope Jun obsession forget home, meaning salvation, and Jun fields and buildings, made no mining, the taboo is also Yuan Lung, Heyuan and the king when the languages? as villains, like lying hundred feet upstairs, lying Jun on the ground, but on the bed between what evil? "table laugh. Prepared by Yan Yue: "If the Yuan Lung Chi Man Mo bile, when Qiu Zhiyu ancient ears, rash rare than people.""
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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby Lady Wu » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:03 am

Oh man, I didn't paste that much in there so I didn't get those parts.

I don't understand how google translate could ever give that. It doesn't make sense even knowing the types of mistakes an automatic translator would make. Like, what the heck is Bom? That's not even a Chinese sound! And what's the "not a bubble"?? There's nothing in the Chinese text that could remotely translate to "bubble"!

Also, see edit of earlier post for real translation.
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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby Xu Yuan » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:49 pm

Excellent! Thank you Lady Wu! Now this is one of the reasons I greatly respect Liu Bei and I am so pleased to see that my thoughts on the matter of what he would say Did actually match up with the historical man. That he clearly respected and revered the man even though he had chosen to stay with his archrival and wouldn't let anyone slander him gets respect from me.

Is there anymore little snippets like this? The thing I love most about the SGZ is some of the conversations between the people, it really highlights their deeds as well.
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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby Gray Riders » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:02 pm

Thanks for translating, Lady Wu! :mrgreen:
It sounds like that's the same Xu Si that revolted against Cao Cao to join Lu Bu. I'd always assumed he was executed along with Gao Shun and Chen Gong, but evidently not.
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Re: Chen Deng

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:20 pm

Thanks Lady Wu, very intresting conversation.
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