Zhang Liao: Great guy, brave, charismatic... but smart?

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Zhang Liao: Great guy, brave, charismatic... but smart?

Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:58 pm

Alright, I'll start off by saying that I love Zhang Liao. He was great, what with He Fei and White Wolf Mountain and persuading Chen Xi(?) into surrender among other people, but there's one thing I've never understood: Why is he considered smart?

He undoubtedly had charisma. I've already given instances above, he was very good with people.
He had bravery, and a lot of luck, because let's say he died at He Fei: He probably would be considered stupid, not brave, but since he won and lived, he is brave.
He didn't think of the plan at He Fei, but he did follow it and understand why it should be done. He was optimistic always, it seems; encouraging fellow officers, Cao Cao, and soldiers to fight and gaining their trust.

But. . where's the smart? Sorry that I can't ask it more intelligently, but I can't really find it. I see the talent, lots of it, but where's the smart?
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Unread postby White Horse General » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:10 pm

Why dumb? You have to be one of the other and he didn't do anything stupid as I recall. His perception of Cao Cao's plan at Hefei was smart. Cao Cao told them what to do but the commanders thought it was suicide, Zhang Liao is the one that realized how it would work and put it into motion. I'd say that's smart.
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Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:12 pm

Why are there only two ways? I'd say he had a good head on his shoulders for sure, but he might have not been as brilliant as it is perceived. He was smart, but not "SMART smart". I'm sorry I'm not eloquent today.
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Unread postby Wanghui » Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:33 am

CaTigeReptile wrote:Why are there only two ways? I'd say he had a good head on his shoulders for sure, but he might have not been as brilliant as it is perceived. He was smart, but not "SMART smart". I'm sorry I'm not eloquent today.


What's your meaning by Smart ? Is that Zhuge/Zhou Yu/ Sima Yi's smart ?
You should clear for this
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Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:52 am

To be quite blunt, I mean "81 int" smart. I mean the extensive level of smartness some people think he is. It's a relative scale; how am I to explain it? I mean, what did he do to ever give an impression of higher intelligence? (As L_K put with eloquency.)
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Unread postby Cao Zhi » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:40 am

CaTigeReptile wrote:To be quite blunt, I mean "81 int" smart. I mean the extensive level of smartness some people think he is. It's a relative scale; how am I to explain it? I mean, what did he do to ever give an impression of higher intelligence? (As L_K put with eloquency.)


Your question may also be answered here.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:42 am

Well, in his SGZ bio, Zhang Liao saw the reason behind Chang Xi's hesitancy and lured him to surrender, and then at Changshe he didn't panic about the insurrection and calmly caught the perpetrators. That's no Chain Scheme, but you've gotta have a good (and calm) head to figure that.

Besides, 81 INT isn't SMART smart. You know those advisor-types in the 90's, them guys are SMART smart. That's why their INT is >=90. Compared with the other frontline generals, he seems to be more intelligent because he's been put in independent commands and never screwed up despite various challenges.
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:47 am

Well, 81 INT is pretty darn smart, considering the average person is probably around 50-70 smart. I think his eloquent handling of the Guan Yu surrender situation might also help out his intellectual reputation.
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Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:47 am

I was hesitant to PUT the "stat" because of the redirection I would get to that link. I am just saying in general; other sources besides Koei think he is incredibly smart. I still think that seeing Chen Xi as doubtful has to do with charisma and reading people, which is not the way he is described as being intelligent. I mean, I'm asking for instances that Zhang Liao shows his intelligence.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:53 am

I dunno... reading people seems to take a bit of intelligence (name an example where an otherwise dumb person shows ability to read someone else's mind?), and to act on that knowledge, rather than just assessing the situation, requires some intelligence.
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