Huang Gai: important at Chi Bi? (Was there another way?)

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Huang Gai: important at Chi Bi? (Was there another way?)

Unread postby twiztidscholar45 » Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:01 am

I dont know but i was thinking is there another way Chi Bi couldve turned out the same without the fire attck? I think Zhuge Liang wouldve thiought of something but tell me what do u think they couldve done instead.
In this battle strength alone will not save you
User avatar
twiztidscholar45
Assistant
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:26 am

Unread postby Man Chong » Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:58 am

History-CC's troops were already sick, so mayhaps he'll retreat, or someone else like Lu Meng might come up with something

novel-Zhuge Liang would've thought of something.....definately...
Man Chong
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1123
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:33 am

hmm

Unread postby crustyrustyaphid » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:32 pm

Now this is just a thought but...couldn't Zhuge have used aLOT of arbalests from shore and try to wipe out and boats before the get across?

Or Who knows Cao Cao could only marh so far before he had to fight them unless they kept running until he had to go home for fear of being attacked in his absence or just have no where to go with the people in the area hating him.
Gongsun Zan Regent of Youzhou commander of Jizhou,Bingzhou and Qingzhou. Wanna mess wit da White Riders?
User avatar
crustyrustyaphid
Apprentice
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:58 pm

Unread postby Yorak » Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:04 pm

The arbalest hadn't been invented yet, and besides, that's assuming that Wu had the time and resources to make them before Cao Cao came crashing down on them (which I'm pretty sure they didn't).

Historically, it's unknown how important the fire attack was. Chibi is full of conflicting accounts. However, I agree that they probably would have found another way to torch Cao Cao's fleet had Huang Gai been unsucessful.
I'm not even here
Yorak
Master
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:21 am

Unread postby crustyrustyaphid » Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:17 am

like shooting fire arrows in masse at his ships...but hey what about my second idea?would that work?
Gongsun Zan Regent of Youzhou commander of Jizhou,Bingzhou and Qingzhou. Wanna mess wit da White Riders?
User avatar
crustyrustyaphid
Apprentice
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:58 pm

Unread postby Yorak » Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:03 am

Actually, that's the big reason both Zhuge Liang and Zhou Yu gave Sun Quan for their possiblity of victory. Cao Cao had marched so far so quickly that his troops were exhausted, and since they weren't acclimatized to the Wu environment, epidemic was likely. They were in no shape to fight when Zhou Yu and Liu Bei attacked.
I'm not even here
Yorak
Master
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:21 am

Unread postby Devilrai » Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:59 am

The Battle of Chi Bi without the fire attack of Huang Gai? Zhuge Liang would have thinked of something else if Huang Gai was not around, like sending someone else in place of Huang Gai since alot of the Wu officers were very loyal, like Cheng Pu for example he was a third genaration Sun clan warrior, he could have been loyal enough to take that beating.

Who knows Zhuge Liang and Zhou Yu would have come up with something, when Zhuge Liang convinced Sun Quan not to surrender, Chi Bi was already won.
User avatar
Devilrai
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 6:09 am

Unread postby Cao Zhi » Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:49 pm

If Huang Gai had failed or not been sent, Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang would have just cooked up another scheme. Cao Cao's troops were rotting from disease and other debilitations by this point and could not last in a pitched battle on the river. Time was on Wu's side, so even had Cao Cao seen through the scheme, Huang Gai and Kan Ze would have been executed, but Wu still would have found a way to prevail, given Cao Cao's problems in his army.
"To the meaningless French idealisms of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity, we oppose the German realisms of Infantry, Cavalry, and Artillery."
- Prince Bernhard von Bulow, German Chancellor 1900-09 (attrib.)
User avatar
Cao Zhi
Princely Poet of Wei
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:33 pm
Location: Vote Cao in 2004!

Unread postby Elven Fury » Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:52 pm

IMO Huang Gai was crucial to the attacks at Chi Bi... Fire was the best way to be rid of Cao Cao and Huang Gai knew how to carry it out so it would work... i think he showed he was really brilliant and strong in his old age... and was a worthy warrior crucial to Wu's Survival that night...
It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If we take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale. Understanding others - other people, other beliefs, and other nations - will help you become whole.
User avatar
Elven Fury
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:54 pm
Location: NW, NC

Unread postby RyoHazuki » Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:44 pm

Zhou Yu and Zhuge liang would have thought of something,they had pleanty of time before Cao Cao really threatened Wu and Shu.Personally I beleive had Huang Gai not come up with the fire attack,he would think of something else also with Cheng Pu,Pang Tong,Lu Su etc. overseeing the battle,all it would need is a quick letter of advice.

Huang Gai saw that he wouldnt be able too resist Cao Cao for long,so he saw the problem,all he needed was a solution.Be it fire,ambush,defection, or any other form of tactic that would cause confusion would have been enough,however he used fire and that was probebly the best choice for him as the troops were ill and unable too swim well.The ships even set fire too naval camps.
User avatar
RyoHazuki
Student
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:51 pm
Location: Fort William (Scotland)

Next

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], PeanutButterToast and 2 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved