Wish I was He Jin wrote:In the novel, Zhuge Liang was a practically unstoppable power that propelled the perpetually-losing Liu Bei to glory with his omniscience and brilliant tactics.
Many have criticized Zhuge as historically being a political genius but little or nothing more. Unfortunately, I can't read San Guo Zhi, so I'll have to take their word for it.
However, what I would like to know is, if Zhuge Liang was a non-factor, how did Liu Bei emerge as emperor of Shu? How did he emerge victorious in Jingzhou despite the chaotic situation and the participation of all three kingdoms and having by far the weakest force of them all?
Yeah, he stole Jingzhou from Sun Quan, but even that was pretty clever. And how did he conquer Liu Zhang? Yes, Pang Tong was around, but unless history differs Pang Tong died in the early to middle stages because he was shot by an arrow. So how then did Liu Bei emerge victorious?
Liu Bei wasnt totally dependant on Zhuge, and some of his earlier battles showed quite good military tactics on his part.Wish I was He Jin wrote:In the novel, Zhuge Liang was a practically unstoppable power that propelled the perpetually-losing Liu Bei to glory with his omniscience and brilliant tactics.
There are translated SGZ biographies of many of the Three Kingdoms officershere. Happy reading.Wish I was He Jin wrote:Many have criticized Zhuge as historically being a political genius but little or nothing more. Unfortunately, I can't read San Guo Zhi, so I'll have to take their word for it.
Blue Moon Samurai wrote: Also, with the death of Fei, Yu and eventually Bei, Zhuge Liang was made the charge of Liu Feng, a son who did not and could not live up to his fathers legacy.
Blue Moon Samurai wrote:Jiangzhou, Liu Bei got it fair and square but I think he should have gave it back to Wu since he did say, many times, that he will give it back but can you blame him for that?
Having finished the tea, Lu Su said, "My master, Marquis Sun Quan, and the commander of his army, Zhou Yu, have sent me to lay before the Imperial Uncle their views. When Cao Cao led his huge host southward, he gave out that it was for the conquest of the South Land. But really his intention was to destroy Liu Bei. Happily our army was able to repulse that mighty host and so saved him. Wherefore Jingzhou with its nine territories of forty-two counties ought to belong to us. But by a treacherous move, your master has occupied Jingzhou and Xiangyang, so that we have spent our treasure in vain and our armies have fought to no purpose. The Imperial Uncle has reaped the benefits to the full. This is not as it should be."
"Should he die, then you ought to return these cities to us."
"You state the exact facts," said Zhuge Liang.
Seeing as the post I'm responding to is right above me, I see no reason to quote it.
Anyway, while I'm no expert on history, when I read the novel and my first impression wasn't that Liu Bei stole the land from Sun Quan, I think looking at it from Sun Quan's standpoint he certainly did. The two had pledged cooperation with each other, and Liu Bei would never have had a chance at the land without Wu's (yes, that's right, Wu's) victory over Cao Cao. Actually, Lu Su put it best:
Zhuge Liang responded that it was not Liu Bei who was ruling the land, but Liu Qi, son of Liu Biao, and Lu Su could not disagree to his ruling of the lands. However...
There you have it. And I would disagree if anyone said that Zhuge Liang's word didn't constitute Liu Bei's word, because in the novel Liu Bei followed Zhuge Liang's instructions to the letter (except for one case where his need for revenge proved too much for even Zhuge to overcome).
I suppose the reason for this would be Liu Bei's new officers and strategists, his manpower, and some of Cao Cao's forces being preoccupied with the threats in Wu and Jing.
Exar Kun wrote:1)Wu's victory?WU'S?
Victory at Chi Bi had everything to do with Zhuge Liang.Were it not for him,Zhou Yu's entire plan would have failed.No wind,no victory.Zhuge Liang's contribution is worth half a million men.So don't call it Wu's victory,it isn't.
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