Jiang Wei

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Jiang Wei

Unread postby harshbarge » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:55 am

If jiang wei wasn't betrayed and ignored do you think he would have:(a)won the nothern campaign(b)given a much better fight or (c) lost just the same. lets keep this clean of extreme shuists or weists comments?
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Unread postby Liao Zhen » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:21 am

I would believe he would have lost as he did anyways. First off his resources would have eventually died out, another thing is that he was Shu's real only hope at the end but he was still beaten by Deng Ai and Zhong Hui other times. If Zhuge Liang with sufficient supplies and generals could'nt do it, his apprentice can't either.
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Unread postby boogiepopmeup » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:33 am

well most of the time the reason why jiang wei lost was because other people failed him. many times promised reinforcements wouldn't show up or supplies would run out. not 2 mention liu shan would call him back 4 absolutely no reason, and say something stoopid like, 'oh, i thought the men were growing tired, so i called you back.' god, i wanna hit him
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:54 am

Jiang Wei was I think doomed to failure.
Resources were against him.
Terrain was against him.
Home political sentiment was against him.
And most importantly,he did not have the calibur of commanders to carry it out.I mean everybody loves Liao Hua but at the end of the day Liao Hua is no Wei Yan.
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Unread postby boogiepopmeup » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:02 am

which is why i hate peeps putting zhuge so far above jiang. zhuge just had better people 2 do his bidding. jiang wei had 2 carry things out almost by himself.
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Unread postby Liao Zhen » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:07 am

That is true too. I detest Zhuge Liang, but I adore Jiang Wei for that reason. It is also much more dramatic when you are doomed but try to make a stand while you are some apparent "mystical all knowing figure" that has the resources and such to back him up.
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Unread postby Man Chong » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:19 am

I liked Jiang Wei, even though he was a failure. He tried his best with the worst available to him. He even managed to defeat Deng Ai in some cases.

But if he had better things, I still doubt he could've done better. Let's assume you mean better things as in material, like men and resources. Well Wei had vast amounts of talent (Deng Ai, Chen Tai, Zhong Hui) and Jiang Wei himself was no match for all of them.

Now if Jiang Wei had something like, competant officers, yes, I think he could've won more victories. He could delegate authority wisely and not have to do everything himself.
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Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:34 am

Novel-wise, I think Jiang Wei could have succeeded if it wasn't for Liu Shan and Huang Hao.
History-wise, no, I don't think he could have won even if Liu Bei was still on the throne. He wasted a lot of resources on those 9 campaigns, didn't have much talent to back him up in Shu, and was alienated from the emperor due to Huang Hao.
People place Zhuge Liang much higher above Jiang Wei because he was PM, administrator, and military CIC. Talk about a lot of loads. While it's true that he had more to work with than Boyue, it wasn't a dramatic difference compared to Liu Bei's time when Shu still had generals like Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, Huang Zhong, etc., in addition to Wei Yan.
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Unread postby boogiepopmeup » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:37 am

People place Zhuge Liang much higher above Jiang Wei because he was PM, administrator, and military CIC. Talk about a lot of loads.

yes but once again zhuge had peeps 2 do his duties while he wasn't able 2 do it himself *li yan*
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Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:38 am

boogiepopmeup wrote:yes but once again zhuge had peeps 2 do his duties while he wasn't able 2 do it himself *li yan*


Oh yeah, a treacherous peep is a great help. :roll:
Also, Zhuge Liang recruited Jiang Wei to help Shu. Did Jiang Wei try to recruit anyone?
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