Could cao cao won at Chi bi?

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Could cao cao won at Chi bi?

Unread postby LordZhaoYunTheGreat » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:38 pm

Could cao cao ave won?
What would u do in hes shoes?
Would it make a diff?
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Unread postby Han Liang » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:40 pm

Yes. Hecould have won, if he realized that chaining his ships together was a stupid idea and Pang Tong was either being stupid or against him.
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Unread postby Li Ruiyue » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:45 pm

If I was in his shoes, of course he could've won. I wouldn't have taken Pang Tong's advice, and wouldn't have fallen for Huang Gai's fake defection. But alas, I wouldn't have known anything about the plan and therefore I couldn't stop it. :wink:
But Cao Cao had the advantage against Shu and Wu, so it was possible for Wei to win at Chi Bi.
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Unread postby EERman » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:50 pm

i think if he would have waited a little longer than he could have won. or if he had a good strategist around like guo jia, he would not have listined to pang tongs advice, or his strategist, im thinking guo jia would have been the best, could have seen throu pang tongs plot.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:12 pm

Even if the ship-chaining up plot didn't work, Wu/Shu would have come up with another scheme to take him out. Though Cao Cao had more men, their morale is low. Most of his naval forces were newly-acquired from Liu Zong, and not well integrated with the rest of his troops. Jingzhou behind him was not stable. If Wu/Shu decided to dig in and do a drawn-out battle, Cao Cao would have been screwed--it's not easy to feed 830k troops (or even the 200k that he had in history)! There was a famine back home before he left, and he even had to ban alcohol before he left in order to save up grains for the campaign. The northerners in his army were bound to get sick at some point because of the climate differences and stuff (well, they *did* get sick too). Wu and Shu had a morale advantage because they're fighting for survival.

Basically I'm just reiterating Zhou Yu's analysis, but really, Cao Cao's pressing onto the Southland right after taking Jingzhou was a Bad Idea.
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:40 pm

he could have won if he did not underetimate Wu or trust Pang Tong, after winning Yuan Shao and taking over jingzhou his army were war machines :lol:
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Unread postby Devilrai » Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:18 pm

Cao Cao could have won Chi Bi if he had Guo Jia, if Xu Shu actually gave Cao Cao some good strategy and if he didn't fell for the cheap (which were great) tricks of the allies so Cao Cao could have won very easliy but he just didn't see what was really going on, so too bad for him...
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Unread postby Separation Anxiety » Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:35 pm

If I Cao Cao I probably would have loss because I don't know all that I know now. If it was me instead of Cao Cao, I would have won because I would not have linked the ships together, killed my two naval commanders, and not have fallen for Huang Gai's ploy. Thus I would not have been damaged by fire attack. If it were me, I would have sent light crafts with no armor on them, that were full of flammable materials. Then when the fire attack happens Wu would think it was successful. Then I would use catapults to pick off the ships, and I would not have to worry about losing my own ships. Then I would attack the ambushers positions with land troops, and with my superior numbers, I would have won. And simultaneously, I would send out real ships to bring battle to the Wu forces who think they have just brought down a successful fire attack. And that would be it. I would have won at Chi Bi.
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Unread postby Six_and_Up » Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:30 am

Cao Cao wasn't going to win. The attempt on Wu at Chibi was more or less just a calculated attempt that the south would fold under Cao Cao's reputation of military strength. Yet the problem was that if this failed then it would've meant defeat for Cao Cao, as theres no real way his navy can beat Wu's at that point. If i were Cao Cao i would see if Wu folds, if it doesnt then retreat and hold all of Jingzhou, denying Liu Bei any chance land. Following that i would spend the years training up my troops, preparing one well planed attack on Wu rather than try to force an attack at Chibi.
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Unread postby Six_and_Up » Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:30 am

Cao Cao wasn't going to win. The attempt on Wu at Chibi was more or less just a calculated attempt that the south would fold under Cao Cao's reputation of military strength. Yet the problem was that if this failed then it would've meant defeat for Cao Cao, as theres no real way his navy can beat Wu's at that point. If i were Cao Cao i would see if Wu folds, if it doesnt then retreat and hold all of Jingzhou, denying Liu Bei any chance land. Following that i would spend the years training up my troops, preparing one well planed attack on Wu rather than try to force an attack at Chibi.
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