Liu Chan?

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Liu Chan?

Unread postby Shadowlink » Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:05 pm

What do you guys think of this guy?
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Unread postby Lady Zhuge » Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:47 pm

Are you referring to Liu Bei's son or to Liu Bei's grandson?

If you're talking about Liu Shan, he was a passive and foolish ruler who had more interest in wine, women, and a luxurious lifestyle than the kingdom of Shu.

If you're referring to Liu Shan's son Liu Chan, he was a brave and admirable guy who unfortunately was born a generation too late.
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Unread postby Cao Zhi » Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:54 pm

Liu Shan was a careless and foppish fool who cared more about himself than the safety of the kingdom that he was entrusted with. He should have been executed along with Huang Hao.

Liu Chan is as Lady Zhuge said; admirable but born too late. The times make the man...
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:04 pm

Wisest leader Shu ever had. :D Unlike his dad he realised that yes, his Kingdom was rather pathetic, so why try to fight against those mean bullies of Wei and Wu when you can just give it up and spend the rest of your sorry ass life as some kind of spoiled child without having to worry about anything?
The novel would have been more fun if one of the Wei people decaptiated him, or would tear his fat body apart with a few horses. But nooooo we have to get the boring ending.
Love his stats in RTK9, they're so accurate.
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Unread postby Separation Anxiety » Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:32 pm

Liu Shan was a horrible leader. He ruined Shu's government, but there was nothing he could really do about Wei annihilating them. Shu's army had been going downhill. The only general they had that was worth anything was Jiang Wei, and he wasn't supported by the emperor so the military was in the can. As Susan Sto Helit said "Unlike his dad he realised that yes, his Kingdom was rather pathetic, so why try to fight against those mean bullies of Wei and Wu." He realized there was nothing he could do about his kingdom so he surrendered. Liu Bei didn't do anything but prolong the life of his kingdom, when he should have realized how easily his son could be persuaded. Liu Bei could have spared his people the agony his son put them through by either appointing a better leader or surrendering to Wei or even Wu, though Wu didn't have any truly outstanding leaders or generals after Sun Quan.
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Unread postby Zhou Gongjin » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:03 pm

Dian_Wei wrote:though Wu didn't have any truly outstanding leaders or generals after Sun Quan.


Waaaaaaah? Are you forgetting Lu Kang?
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Unread postby Man Chong » Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:33 am

Waaaaaaah? Are you forgetting Lu Kang?


And Ding Feng.....


Now, to simplify things...

Liu Shan's IQ < IQ of a broom

Liu Chan's IQ > Liu Shan's IQ

That's my opinion :)
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Unread postby Devilrai » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:19 am

Liu Shan is not a ruler, never was and he never will be. Zhuge Liang should have taken the title of Emperor after Liu Bei died, Liu Shan wouldn't have know...he has an I.Q. of a broom!

Liu Shan thought that, yes he was out numbered by the Wu and Wei forces but he could have at least fought to the end to redeem for what he brought upon this kingdom.
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:25 am

Lady Zhuge wrote:Are you referring to Liu Bei's son or to Liu Bei's grandson?

If you're talking about Liu Shan, he was a passive and foolish ruler who had more interest in wine, women, and a luxurious lifestyle than the kingdom of Shu.

If you're referring to Liu Shan's son Liu Chan, he was a brave and admirable guy who unfortunately was born a generation too late.
i'm refering to Liu Shan, Liu Bei's son
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Unread postby Lu Wei » Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:49 am

Liu Shan did nothing but hinder Shu. Jiang Wei may have been a little eccentric in his campaigns, but any success they could have had went down the crapper. I hate Liu Shan if for nothing else than causing the deaths of loyal officers such as Jiang Wei and Zhuge Zhan.
Zhuge Liang should have taken the kingdom for himself as Liu Bei told him to.
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