Zhang Liao's Reputation

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Unread postby PangDeGuy » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:47 pm

I think Zhang Liao really did deserve his reputation. I mean, that few men against that many Wu guys? The bloody slaughter that ensued after he surprised Sun Quan (I'm quoting Lgz a little here ;)) was probably what got him the reputation of children hushing at his name.

Note: I think I just repeated everything you guys said, except in my words ;)
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:08 pm

Another aspect of Zhang Liao's defence of Hefei that impressed me was how he was able to overlook his personal differences with Yue Jin and Li Dian, and inspire them to help him do the job even though they didn't get along before.

I may have missed it, but where does it say that Sun Quan's men had dysentry?
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Unread postby Morg » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:21 pm

Dian_Wei wrote:Another thing that Zhang Liao was responsible for was when Sun Quan was attacking and they broke the bridge down to make Sun Quan not be able to retreat. I think it was at Hefei, Im not quite sure though.

Yep, Zhang Liao dispatched Li Dian to destroy Xiaoshi bridge after the Wu army had crossed so that they could not retreat and you are right, it was at He Fei.

Lady Wu wrote:I may have missed it, but where does it say that Sun Quan's men had dysentry?

I seem to remember that it came up on Frontier Forums a while back but I can't look it up as they've closed for Chinese New Year.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:44 am

Morg wrote:I seem to remember that it came up on Frontier Forums a while back but I can't look it up as they've closed for Chinese New Year.

That's too bad. I'm so curious. Thanks for checking, though.

I think Luo Guanzhong did Zhang Wenyuan a disservice. Historically, Zhang Liao only had 800 volunteers to go with him, while in the novel he had at least 2000 mounted troops. The SGZ account of Zhang Liao ( http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?t=1669&start=10 ) is far more more exciting than that of SGYY--SGYY made it sound like that Sun Quan fell into a trap, and there's only the 300 men of Ling Tong's defending him against Zhang Liao's 2k. In SGZ, Zhang Liao was literally within arm's reach of Sun Quan, having charged through the ranks all by himself; even as his men got surrounded he charged back to save them. Luo deprived the novel Zhang Liao of this heroism.
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Unread postby Sun Zhongmou » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:00 am

Zhang Liao is one of the greatest warrior of the Sanguo period, along with Gan Ning. Both of them really show signs of having great martial prowess with their exploits.

However, my favourite Wei general is either Xiahou Yuan or Xu Huang. I just couldn't picture a Zhang Liao without his Hercule Poirot mustache after Dynasty Warriors :D

There's also some discrepancies about the Siege of He Fei. Sun Quan's bio stated that his army is already is on the way back before Zhang Liao attacked. I'm not sure which was which. If it's true that Sun Quan's army retreated because of dysentry, then it would make sense why he couldn't take He Fei.
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Unread postby Six_and_Up » Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:29 am

Umm Sun Zhongmou wat ranks Xiahou Yuan above all the other Wei generals? Just curious on ur opinon cuse not many ppl put him as their favourite generals
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Unread postby Morg » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:59 pm

Sun Zhongmou wrote:There's also some discrepancies about the Siege of He Fei. Sun Quan's bio stated that his army is already is on the way back before Zhang Liao attacked. I'm not sure which was which. If it's true that Sun Quan's army retreated because of dysentry, then it would make sense why he couldn't take He Fei.

There isn't a discrepancy as far as I am aware, Zhang Liao attacked the Wu army twice. The first time was the charge with 800 men and the second time, the Wu army was withdrawing and Zhang Liao came up behind them and scored another sucess. I actually mentioned this on the last page of this thread ;)


Lady Wu wrote:Luo deprived the novel Zhang Liao of this heroism.

Absolutely. The historical account of that battle is so much better than the fictional one (as you said) and I would recommend everyone have a read of Zhang Liao's SGZ bio.
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Unread postby Lady Wu » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:05 pm

Morg wrote:There isn't a discrepancy as far as I am aware, Zhang Liao attacked the Wu army twice. The first time was the charge with 800 men and the second time, the Wu army was withdrawing and Zhang Liao came up behind them and scored another sucess. I actually mentioned this on the last page of this thread ;)

I see that now, after re-reading Zhang Liao's bio. So the first attack was omitted in Sun Quan's biography, and the SGYY account lumped the two together--there was no 10-day siege of Hefei, only Zhang Liao's charge and Sun Quan's retreat.
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Unread postby Sun Zhongmou » Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:27 am

Six_and_Up wrote:Umm Sun Zhongmou wat ranks Xiahou Yuan above all the other Wei generals? Just curious on ur opinon cuse not many ppl put him as their favourite generals


Dude, read my thread properly. I said that I liked XHY over Zhang Liao. I never said that XHY is the better general.

As for more on XHY, check this thread:

http://www.3kingdoms.net/forum/showthre ... genumber=1
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Unread postby Sun Zhongmou » Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:05 pm

There isn't a discrepancy as far as I am aware, Zhang Liao attacked the Wu army twice. The first time was the charge with 800 men and the second time, the Wu army was withdrawing and Zhang Liao came up behind them and scored another sucess. I actually mentioned this on the last page of this thread


I think there's a historical discrepancy. Sun Quan never mentioned this in his bio. Furthermore, there are more thanl three Wu bios that mentioned the second attack and not the first.

All the Wu bios were consistent and they could state the nature of the incident and where it took place. I believed Zhang Liao's bio never stated the place where it took place and nor was there any mention in the other Wei bios.

Furthermore, assuming that Wu really did left out the records of the first attack out of embarassment. Then Sun Quan's deeds at He Fei became more monumental and less embarassing.

He managed to rally his troops to attack He Fei for ten days. Not only were they demoralised, they were also down with dysentry. It seems as if Zhang Liao's actions didn't leave such a great impact on Sun Quan's forces as a result. Sun Quan must be a better military commander than people think if this is true.
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